Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club

Brigades => Legends => Canon/Legends => Legends of Mandalore => Topic started by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 03:11 AM

Title: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 03:11 AM
Anyone know? I checked out his article on Wookieepedia and there are several images of him, mostly from the old Marvel comic series. In those it looks like his armor and gear is pretty similar to Boba Fett's, especially during the Clone Wars. He is sporting some Jaig Eyes though. Later however, during the Rebellion he's sporting white armor with no markings and a ridiculous orange flightsuit.

There is one pic however, from Star Wars Gamer where he's back in the green armor, but no markings. This is the one I think looks the best. Looking for feedback however. Here's that pic.

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/3/35/Blood_Carver.jpg/442px-Blood_Carver.jpg)
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Demar Falco on Dec 21, 2009, 11:27 AM
i dont know....but his gun looks like a small AR from halo
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 04:24 PM
The gun is pretty cool looking IMO.

Anyone else notice that the armor on his torso is radically different?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ka'ox Veed on Dec 21, 2009, 04:43 PM
Thats not Fynn its Jodo.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 04:50 PM
Ha, I know it can get confusing when they all have the same olive armor but the dude with the Blood Carver in the first pic is supposedly Fenn Shysa.

Here's Jodo Kast (and not for much longer apparently... :'()

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/a3/Kast1.jpg)
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 04:51 PM
No it's not Jodo Kast.  I have that issue of the Star Wars Gamer and it is definately Fenn Shysa.

Has anyone done the "soft" Mando that he sports in the Marvel comic run? I like it and would be interested if someone has a pattern.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 04:53 PM
I didn't even know there was a "soft" Mando armor.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 05:05 PM
The tricky thing about Fenn is that in nearly every publication that featured him, he was drawn a different way.  I tend to prefer the look he had when he first appeared, in "The Search Begins".  Of course, his armor and soft parts are all the same bright green in that comic... so if I were to build the costume, I would tone it down a bit to be a more olive(Boba-ish) shade.

I have seen one or two costumers' versions where the kit is exactly the same as ESB Boba Fett except for the helmet and the lack of Fett's chest emblem. Honestly, when interpereted that way, I think it looks too much like Boba because even the soft parts are identical. 

Anyhow, my favourite pic of him is this one:

(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff352/nolasomething/random/250px-FennShysa.jpg)

It has the green soft parts, but the kit isn't as brightly coloured as in the old comics.  The only thing I would change is the blue/grey on the helmet to black.


Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 05:08 PM
By "soft" costume I mean the appearance like in the picture Venn posted above (as he also first appeared in Marvel).  It is a soft looking vest (quilted maybe?)  over a flight suit (or integrated into) but with standard Mando helmet and gaunts. 
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 05:13 PM
I have never seen anyone attempt to make anything like that. It looks to me like a flak vest with a quilted panel, maybe trimmed with cording of some kind. It could be an interesting project to try and figure out how to make it. :)
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 05:17 PM
Poor sheb is karking Mand'alor and he can't even afford proper armor haha. ;)

So Mar'eyce you're saying a green flightsuit and vest with olive green armor would be good? Cause I agree with you about the potential to look too much like Boba Fett. And regarding the pic you provided (where he doesn't look old enough to shave lol), why change the grey to black?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 05:26 PM
Poor sheb is karking Mand'alor and he can't even afford proper armor haha. ;)

So Mar'eyce you're saying a green flightsuit and vest with olive green armor would be good? Cause I agree with you about the potential to look too much like Boba Fett. And regarding the pic you provided (where he doesn't look old enough to shave lol), why change the grey to black?

lol....I guess not being able to afford armor would make sense if this took place during the time when the Empire had taken over and Fenn and his guys were all living in treehouses in the jungle. ;)

But anyhow, I do think the kit would look good with olive green armor and perhaps a faded green for the soft parts, because it would  set it apart from Boba.

And I would change the grey on the helmet to black simply because it's black in the comics.


Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 05:29 PM
And remember Leia confused him with Boba because his armor looked similar.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 05:34 PM
And I would change the grey on the helmet to black simply because it's black in the comics.

Understood ner vod. And your comments about the treehouses makes sense too.

A green vest though? Seems odd to me. And what about the other soft parts, literally the same as Boba Fett? Did he also have a cape?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 21, 2009, 05:37 PM
People confuse Kal Falco for Boba Fett in Real Life so... I don't think the colors being so similar are an issue. The only Galaxy reknown Mandalorian at the time is Boba Fett. So, if Fenn swoops in brazen, brash, highly confident, showing leadership tendencies and wearing green... most people in the galaxy would make that assumption.

As for the colors, I agree with Mar'eyce. I've seen 1 really nice Fennn Shysha in Rl at SDCC09. It looked great but, it was essentially an ESB Boba Fett repaint. So much to the point that the only way I realized it wasn't an ESB Boba was the jaig eyes on the helmet. To me, that's just incorrect and inaccurate to the character.

Of course, I can;t stand the bright lame green and the gold and silver/white armor either.

I see Fenn in an OD flightsuit, with OD plates, his sigils, modded gaunts to look less like Boba's as Fenn had totally different equip on them. The JP shouldnt be the same as Fett's either. As for the helmet, I like the blue cheeks and white face.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 21, 2009, 05:39 PM
As for the first pic posted... I would assume that's mission specific soft body armor. Like a bullet proof vest if you will. However, that design wouldn't pass CRL's. It'd be cool for an auxillary set of armor but, not approvable for the primary.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 21, 2009, 05:39 PM
I always enjoyed Fenn's "Mandalore" armor

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/23/Fenn8.JPG)

but ya the image you see from the book in the OP is the same from the comics that he wore. It's his flightsuit underneath his Mando chestplate

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/9/95/Fenn6.JPG/200px-Fenn6.JPG)
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 05:44 PM
It'd be cool for an auxillary set of armor but, not approvable for the primary.

While I defer to your role in costume approval, not all costumes have to be  "canon". 

(which is pretty ironic for a group of custom costumers and sounds a bit like the Tupperboys)

Sometimes you just have to wear a costume for yourself.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 21, 2009, 05:48 PM
I agree Corvax. Not saying it's canon or not canon as in a custom club that has no bearing on a costume here. All of our kits fit a canon style but our characters etc. aren't canon.

That being said, I was just laying out that if s new member were to build this and submit it for approval, they should know ahead of time that it doesn't meet the CRL's for armor as it's well under armored for current Modern Era CRL's. That's not meant to be a deterant at all, just passing along info. Also, if a kit is not approved, it can't be worn to Official Mercs Events, only open events.

McCoy: I love the style of his Mandalore armor but the colors are too Yukon Cornelius to me lol!
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ka'ox Veed on Dec 21, 2009, 05:54 PM
Sorry I confused myself.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 05:55 PM
From Marvel Star Wars issue 68

http://www.nukecd.com/cayce/mandcomix/Marvel%20Comics%20-%20Star%20Wars%20%23068/Marvel%20Star%20Wars%20068-13.JPG

It looks very "soft" here.  But isn't just an undersuit since we never see him take off over-armor and he still has his jetpack on.

Although it could just be "stylized"
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 05:59 PM
Just having old comic books for reference creates a real challenge. In the early comics Fenn was wearing all green, but then again so was Boba Fett Spar.

(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff352/nolasomething/sr_0bbbc3bcc343d9-vi.jpg)

Fenn is on the left, and at the time the comic was published, the guy in the middle was supposed to be Boba. His armor looks very different than in the films though. The bright green suits are awful, but we do have to remember that this is the same comic that had Dengar wearing blue and purple.

One thing that does stand out on Fenn's kit is the gauntlet blasters. And his jetpack appears to be different too.

I always enjoyed Fenn's "Mandalore" armor

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/23/Fenn8.JPG)


It goes so well with his bright yellow hair!  :D

I guess it could be re-interpreted with a slighly more subdued shade for the soft parts. He looks like he stole his flightsuit from an X-wing pilot.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 06:01 PM
If I recall... the orange jumpsuit with white armor comes from an issue where Fenn was training on X-wings with the Rebel Alliance.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 06:08 PM
So I did a Google image search for Mr. Shysa and came up with pics of an action figure that was put out by Hasbro. It was one of their two-figure packs that they've been doing for awhile now. In it Fenn is side-by-side with Dengar.

(http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/fenn_dengar.jpg)

How come Fenn has Jango's blasters?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 06:10 PM
How come Fenn has Jango's blasters?

Because his action figure is just a repainted Jango with a new head. :P  

Oooh, look at pretty purple Dengar!
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 06:11 PM
Yeah, just like Tobi  is a repainted Evolutions Boba.

I'm assuming Fenn and Tobi's armor are retconned to be like their action figures.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 06:14 PM
I have both the Fenn and Tobi figures. At least Fenn's head looks like him, but Tobi's figure has hair when he was clearly bald in the comics.

That orange ammo belt is just scary though.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 21, 2009, 06:17 PM
The Tobi reminds me of Jason Statham.  I interpret it to be closely shaved, "stubble" hair.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 06:25 PM
So... could someone use a Jango holster rig, two westars, and a belt with Boba style pounches as part of a Fenn Shysa costume?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ghez Hokan on Dec 21, 2009, 06:31 PM
The Tobi reminds me of Jason Statham.  I interpret it to be closely shaved, "stubble" hair.

I was thinking the exact same thing just now lol
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 21, 2009, 07:13 PM
I think if you were to build a Fenn utilizes all sources, like I did when I built my Mandalore th Indomitable, staying true to teh character and keeping the "tell" markings like the white face, gauntlet mounted blasters and jaig eyes, you'd be fine. Fenn isnt accepted by the 501st... I don;t know why... perhaps no one's tried? But, for the sake of this club, f you were to do Fenn, copying any one of teh sources or utilizing them all would be fine. Just as long as it was clearly Fenn when you were done.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 07:26 PM
I've wondered about that myself; why there are no Fenns in the 501st. Maybe because he's an enemy of the Empire?

But he isn't allowed in the Rebel Legion either. :(
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ghez Hokan on Dec 21, 2009, 07:36 PM
Yes, it would be because he's a rebel.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ka'ox Veed on Dec 21, 2009, 07:48 PM
Doesn't there also have to be 3 canonical references to make the costume acceptable in the 501st? Hence why Imperial Knights are not allowed.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 21, 2009, 08:37 PM
I don't think it's because he's a "rebel". He's a Mandalorian and although Jodo and Jaster were not Imperial's they are classed as Bounty Hunter's, I would imagine Fenn would be the same as with all Mando's when they allowed customs, regardless of your characters "backstory".

Also, the 3 references thing is possible however, where are Jaster and Jodo's 3 references? Yet they are allowed.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ghez Hokan on Dec 21, 2009, 08:43 PM
Those classed as "Bounty Hunters" or "Denizens of the Empire" are those non-Imperial characters that would/could conceivably side with the Empire. Why they include Tuskens, I have no clue.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 21, 2009, 08:51 PM
I don't think it's because he's a "rebel". He's a Mandalorian and although Jodo and Jaster were not Imperial's they are classed as Bounty Hunter's, I would imagine Fenn would be the same as with all Mando's when they allowed customs, regardless of your characters "backstory".

Also, the 3 references thing is possible however, where are Jaster and Jodo's 3 references? Yet they are allowed.


As far as I know, both the 501st and the Rebel Legion require 3 canonical visual references to allow an expanded universe costume.  But, you make a good point about Jaster and Jodo.

Maybe part of the problem with Fenn being accepted into either one is the inconsistency of his appearance across the references that do exist. Unless each version were to be regarded as a separate costume. But in that case purple Dengar should be allowed in the 501st too.

Those classed as "Bounty Hunters" or "Denizens of the Empire" are those non-Imperial characters that would/could conceivably side with the Empire. Why they include Tuskens, I have no clue.

I guess because Tuskens are "bad guys".   But  Fenn Shysa....enemy of the Empire, liberator of his people, and ally of the Rebel Alliance.....is a "good guy".   :P  

Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Jare Hasan on Dec 21, 2009, 08:55 PM


Also, the 3 references thing is possible however, where are Jaster and Jodo's 3 references? Yet they are allowed.

For Jodo, IIRC, the 3 refs were comic book, trading card, and action figure.  I have no idea if there's ever been a Jaster action figure, but I would guess 2 of hsi refs would be comic book and trading card?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Dec 21, 2009, 10:02 PM
I have a Fenn Shysa costume waiting in the wings once I've gotten a good enough start on my custom. I am one of the ones who is going to start wtih ESB-Boba and go from there. Largely copy-pasted from another board, and slightly edited, is me reasoning here:

ere's the big reference:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Star%20Wars/Mandaloriansclonewars.jpg)

The rest of that issue, he's wearing something lighter, but still has the same helmet, belt, and gauntlets.

In that picture, Boba, Fenn, and Tobbi Dala all have the same basic (incorrect) colour scheme. Here's the cover of the same issue:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Mswc68cover.jpg)

So the cover colorist had a slightly better idea. But still, both of those were using this image for reference:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/bobartesb1.jpg)

*sigh*

So my first step was to opt to correct the colours back to what they should be. I have accumulated all the heavily-researched original paints, with a couple exceptions/revisions. Here they all are...

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/SDC12503.jpg)

The only one that isn't ESB Boba is the pale green third from the right (NYC Jade Green) that I'm going to lighten with white and use for the jaig eyes.

The belt has six double-wide pouches across the front, then a pair of leather versions of Boba's side "saddlebags", then six regular Boba pouches across the back.

The hardest part has been nailing down the gauntlets, as the blasters on them are drawn differently from panel to panel. Minus the wookiee scalps, sidearm, and slung blaster, the rest is probably going to be straight ESB Boba.

I just finished scanning every panel Fenn appeared in (in his armor and as more than a silhouette) through the entire Marvel run, #68, #99, #100, #101, and #107. I'm cleaning them up now. I like his Mandalore armour, too (first appeared in #99, back to green in #100), and would do the flightsuit as more of a saffron linen and the armour in polished bare-metal. But I far prefer the Boba-esque armour. :)

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 21, 2009, 10:34 PM
action figures don't count as references
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Jare Hasan on Dec 21, 2009, 10:41 PM
They do for Baron Fel.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ke'pare Onduro on Dec 21, 2009, 11:05 PM
Here's a question, do alternate covers count as part of the same source, or a different one, since they are often farmed out to a different design team.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 21, 2009, 11:35 PM
Here's a question, do alternate covers count as part of the same source, or a different one, since they are often farmed out to a different design team.

Hmm, good question. I would say, in my opinion, that if the artist is different then it's a different source.

Here's a pretty good Fenn Shysa I found on the Dented Helmet.

http://thedentedhelmet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33141&highlight=fenn+shysa (http://thedentedhelmet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33141&highlight=fenn+shysa)

Looks pretty awesome to me. If I was going to do a Shysa I would use this for some inspiration. Might make some small changes, like changing the flighsuit color to green for example.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 21, 2009, 11:41 PM
For Jodo, IIRC, the 3 refs were comic book, trading card, and action figure.  I have no idea if there's ever been a Jaster action figure, but I would guess 2 of hsi refs would be comic book and trading card?

Well, the comic book thing has been 2 pronged... 1. to get in kits they want... two seperate comic appearances has been fine. To keep out those they dont want, comics, regardless of the number of appearances count as 1 medium.

Even if that's the case though, how do they justify Jaster who only appeared in 2 of the 4 issues of Open Seasons and looked different in each issue?

Anyway, yes there is a Jodo action figure. It was a lousy repaint of a lousy ESB Boba Fett figure. It came our early 2009... long after Jodo was accepted to the Legion.

I honestly think Fenn has merit to be accepted by the Legion if someone were to try. Honestly dont know that it's been attempted yet. I'm aware of the Fenn seen at TDH, that was the one I saw at SDCC09 and although a beautiful kit, I felt it was just wrong for Fenn. But, that's just me. There have been Boba Fett toys made from the Boba Fett comics loos and they looked like the comics. The Legions Boba costumes are based on how he appeared in teh movies. Since Fenn appeared in comics only, I don't think it's fair to the character to make him appear like Boba Fett did in the movies. He should look like he did in the comics. Were we to get an application here for a Fenn Shysa, I would vote against the one on TDH. Again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the build, I would take it as a generic Mandalorian Protector. However, I feel it doesn't accuratly portray Fenn Shysa as he's been seen in all refrence material and is a disservice to the character.

Personally, at the moment, I'm just gunning for TK 2280 to get his Kal Skirata Legion approved. He has as many or more references as Jodo and Jaster do and the kit's top notch!
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 21, 2009, 11:56 PM
I dunno, one of Kal's appearances he's not even wearing armor


May I just say, the threads lately have been intellectually stimulating. I have enjoying having all the nerdy conversations on these EU jaster/deathwatch/fenn topics  ;D
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: No'saj Huune on Dec 22, 2009, 12:55 AM
Doesn't there also have to be 3 canonical references to make the costume acceptable in the 501st? Hence why Imperial Knights are not allowed.

You brought up a good question and here's the their official requirement as far as "canonical referances":

Article II - Membership

A. The 501st Legion is an inclusive, equal-opportunity fan club and will not tolerate discrimination on the grounds of sex, race, sexual orientation, or religion. The only requirements for membership are "ownership" of an accurate, complete, and professional-quality costume celebrating the Imperial (Dark Side) characters from the Star Wars films or its expanded universe sources, that the member is able to wear said costume(s) and that the member must be at least eighteen (18) years of age. Membership is granted only after an application is made to the Legion and by a Garrison Membership Liaison (GML) assigned to the prospective member's geographic region. Persons under the age of 18 are not allowed as listed members of the 501st Legion club. The 501st claims no responsibility for minors at events that are hosted or attended by its members.......


However according to their Costume Reference Library ( http://www.501stlegion.org/crl/ ) Fenn doesn't qualify and I can't find a reason why.  Also it would seem they are in need of reviewing their acceptable character list as just about all of the Republic Commando's from the novels jumped ship (except for Darman and Niner for now) and never became part of the 501st.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 22, 2009, 01:20 AM
Were we to get an application here for a Fenn Shysa, I would vote against the one on TDH. Again, it has nothing to do with the quality of the build, I would take it as a generic Mandalorian Protector. However, I feel it doesn't accuratly portray Fenn Shysa as he's been seen in all refrence material and is a disservice to the character.

Personally, at the moment, I'm just gunning for TK 2280 to get his Kal Skirata Legion approved. He has as many or more references as Jodo and Jaster do and the kit's top notch!

I agree, I've been watching his progress pretty intently. So A'den, what would be a good start for Fenn Shysa? What sources would be good for the costume (comic, action figure, etc)? Cause I think the guy on TDH made a good attempt (especially the helmet) but it went off track somewhere. Looked too Boba Fett.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Dec 22, 2009, 03:42 AM
I've seen Danikin's Shysa. There are a number of things I don't like about it, from paint choices, to his accessorizing (belt pouches are wrong, gauntlets are wrong, and he has a sidearm where Fenn never did...). I haven't said anything because he's so proud of it and I don't want to be a downer -- and there's no CRL anyway, because...

The loose rule is three EU sources for costumes that didn't appear in one of the movies or TV shows. The "multiple issues of one comic series count as one source" thing is partly about the artist -- if it's one artist for the entire run, that's one source, but if a different artist takes over partway through, that would count as two. And also for the one artist to portray the costume consistently within that once source, in which case Marvel Star Wars fails hard.

Even when he's wearing that light-armoured version, it's different from one panel to the next. In the splash page with Boba and Tobbi, he's wearing the familiar rocketpack, so I will, too, but his light-armour rocketpack is never depicted consistently, along with his blasters. Sometimes he has the pathetic excuse for a mythosaur badge on one shoulder, sometimes the other, sometimes both, sometimes neither, sometimes just on the shoulder of his flight suit because he doesn't have shoulder armour in that panel... -___-

It's made worse by the fact that he's shown in three distinct costumes inconsistently: light armour, then full-Boba in flashback, light armour some more, the white/silver full armour, then the light armour again, then the light armour and the silver amrour and back in the same issue, then another version of the light armour... *sigh*

If it werent for the fact that it seriously interferes with the front zipper of the flight suit, I'd say the light-armour look is what's under the flak vest. For those occasions when the neck-down armorweave of the flight-suit will suffice, without the need for additional heavy plates (except, apparantly, the groin plate -- good to know Fenn has priorities).

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mandalore the Uniter on Dec 22, 2009, 08:51 AM
Danikin made a great Boba costume and used a Shysa helmet.  To me thats not Shysa, that's boba with an alternate helmet.  I've never even seen a picture where Shysa's armor looks anything like Boba's armor from the movies...and thats what Danikin was wearing at SDCC this year.

Shysa has enough EU references to be on a canon organization's list.  Why he hasn't yet is beyond me, but it may have something to do with the complete inconsistencies of his armor in every canon appearance.  Personally, I think the figure is the most incorrect appearance of him, because it shows him in medium armor when 99.9% of his EU appearances show him in light armor.  Figures are really hard to get a good frame of reference. 
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 22, 2009, 10:08 AM
Shysa is the same boat as Montross... HE has TOO many refs that are way too wildly variant. It is almost impossible to get a good, clear and consistent look of 'this is for certain what he had'. Which is all they honestly look for. I have run into the same issue with doing research for a Montross build (as encouraged by some officers and members in the Garrison i'm at).

In the end, doing the costume you want isn't nearly as formulaic or strict (in our area) as it appears. You have to have good references, the CRL's need to be detailed and precise with no room for mis-interprets, and you need to be able to build a kit from them multiple times.

Also, not to insult any Shysa fans, but he's not that wildly a popular character. And, 9/10 times, when wearing him, you will be called Boba Fett. Or, depending on the Con, you may even have someone with enough brains to come up and tell you how you did your costume WRONG. I've seen it happen at Faire's and Cons with different portrayls (but the same sort of situation) and I think that, along with the scattered and varied refs, is why.

As far Jodo, I have no idea, i'pve not researched him. But we can tell from the Comics that Jango takes up Jaster's armor and equipment, so I think in a case where you have two strong references and a wealth of images in one source, and then not necessarily a distinct third, but one strong enough to make the project feasible, then it's a go. That's my opinion on it though. It depends on your GML and the strength of your case/evidence.

And Fenn has the evidence, I just don't think he'll work for the 501st as he is pretty well known for not liking the Empire.As to the RC, the character doesn't ALWAYS have to be a hard-core, permanent Empire supporter with matchin merchandise/fan-club card to prove it, lol. Vader, in the end, turned on the Empire and tossed Sidious into the depths of the Death Star... I'm fairly certain that qualifies as rebelling. lol.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Dec 22, 2009, 11:48 AM
I agree, I've been watching his progress pretty intently. So A'den, what would be a good start for Fenn Shysa? What sources would be good for the costume (comic, action figure, etc)? Cause I think the guy on TDH made a good attempt (especially the helmet) but it went off track somewhere. Looked too Boba Fett.

The first thing is, the flightsuit and vest should be green. I don't have an issue with the OD paint apps but, the softs should be green too. As Pere said, no sidearm, incorrect gaunts and jetpack. I think if those were straightened out it'd look sweet.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 22, 2009, 02:03 PM
ya that padded armor and cloth from the pic is just his green flightsuit underneath the armor
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Corvax on Dec 22, 2009, 03:40 PM
Golly... if only there was a costuming group that would allow a Fenn or Montross or Kal...  ;)
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 22, 2009, 04:54 PM
I dunno

I've always wondered how I'd feel trooping next to a Montross

ya it's a unique and cool costume, granted not many of us have the 'build' for Montross. let's be honest, if you don't have the guns, wear freaking sleeves! but ya, I'd probably still want to shoot the guy. screw Montross, he was a tool
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 22, 2009, 05:10 PM
The first thing is, the flightsuit and vest should be green. I don't have an issue with the OD paint apps but, the softs should be green too. As Pere said, no sidearm, incorrect gaunts and jetpack. I think if those were straightened out it'd look sweet.

How about soft parts? Color and type? And as far as the green color of the flightsuit itself, would it have to be the bright green of the Marvel series or could it be a more muted natural color?

Golly... if only there was a costuming group that would allow a Fenn or Montross or Kal...  ;)

Hmm... if only. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 22, 2009, 05:14 PM
How about soft parts? Color and type? And as far as the green color of the flightsuit itself, would it have to be the bright green of the Marvel series or could it be a more muted natural color?

I mean if you were going for 'the look' it'd have to be that green
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 22, 2009, 06:21 PM
Yeah, there would be no confusing me for Boba Fett then. :o

Still, I really hate the bright "Marvel" look. Maybe this is why we don't see any Fenn Shysa's running around ever. I would work on it, in place of my own custom even, if I knew where to start.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Dec 22, 2009, 07:00 PM
How about soft parts? Color and type? And as far as the green color of the flightsuit itself, would it have to be the bright green of the Marvel series or could it be a more muted natural color?

You want geeky? Here's geeky. In-universe, it's supposed to be an "armored spacesuit". That implies more pressure and thermal regulatory properties than cotton coveralls. I have notions of something like a Dune stillsuit in a bodyhugging layer, with armoured and pressurized g-suit over that. This would be the layer made with the armorweave cloth. I'd happily say this is that bright green thing. Then last is the zip-up-the-front outer layer that keeps everything clean and tidy. Shysa just left off the vest and voeralls and heavy rocketpack in favour of something better suited to guerrilla warfare, and stuck his knees and cod and belt on over that.

I would still mute the garishness of Marvel's colours. Go for something more kelly green or hunter green. That'll mesh well with accurately-coloured armour.

I'm doing the Clone Wars-era Shysa, which will be straight Boba, all layers, with the differences I detailed above. I don't care if people call me Boba. If anyone tells me I did it wrong, I have no problem taking thirty seconds to say I did it right, for what I did. It was supposed to be the uniform of the Mandalorian Protectors, after all. That would tend to imply a certain uniformity. ;)

And maybe I'll do the pressure suit, too... Wander around Dragon*Con, bucket off, in my Mando skivvies, and see if anyone recognizes it. *chuckle*

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 22, 2009, 07:31 PM
well, not all the protectors are uniform.

technically, in LoTF Boba is Mandalore of the protectors, and they wear all sorts of colors and armor
although under spar's rule and in that han solo "tales" comic, they are all dressed like fett, but thats for artistic effect
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ghez Hokan on Dec 22, 2009, 07:58 PM
Not necessarily. Here's a panel from one of the Clone Wars comics with a whole mess of Spar's Protectors in various colors.

(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/4/41/Deadbucketheads.jpg)
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Dec 22, 2009, 08:06 PM
Although the bright Marvel green is techically "canon", I still side with the more subdued shades of green for Fenn's soft parts. Canon or not, the comics are from the 80s. Like I pointed out before, Boba has on awful, bright green too and Dengar wears blue and purple. And if I remember correctly, the stormies have bright blue belts in some of those issues too. :P

And even though the action figure has inaccurate armor and weapons(Jango repaint), it reinforces all green as being associated with the character.

Concerning a uniform look for the protectors, I do remember in the old comic "Death in the City of Bone", where Tobi Dala is putting on his armor before blowing the place up....he says something to the effect of:

 "This is the uniform of the Mandalorian protectors, so I think it's fitting that I wear it while protecting."  

 I think that also implies uniformity, meaning the green armor was associated with the protectors, at least during this time. It would make sense in keeping with the meanings of different colours; green=duty.

Ah, when I was typing there was a new post. :)

The more recent comics do seem to retcon the uniform green by showing variety during the clone wars. *sigh*  


Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Dec 22, 2009, 08:07 PM
which clone wars comic is that?
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ghez Hokan on Dec 22, 2009, 08:46 PM
Sorry, it wasn't part of the Clone Wars line, but the CW IS the timeframe for that issue. It's from Republic #67: Forever Young.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Venn Tosa on Dec 22, 2009, 08:58 PM
I remember that issue of Republic, for anyone that has the collected volumes it's in Star Wars Clone Wars Volume #6. I never understood why there were Mandos shown, they have nothing to do with the story, they just sit there in the background of that one panel. Weird.

I would still mute the garishness of Marvel's colours. Go for something more kelly green or hunter green. That'll mesh well with accurately-coloured armour.

That's what I was thinking too. OD plates and a darker flightsuit.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Ghez Hokan on Dec 22, 2009, 09:18 PM
I remember that issue of Republic, for anyone that has the collected volumes it's in Star Wars Clone Wars Volume #6. I never understood why there were Mandos shown, they have nothing to do with the story, they just sit there in the background of that one panel. Weird.

Yeah, not even Wookieepedia seems to know, but it does make it clear that they're Protectors.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Kyr'am Jag on Dec 22, 2009, 10:54 PM
By "soft" costume I mean the appearance like in the picture Venn posted above (as he also first appeared in Marvel).  It is a soft looking vest (quilted maybe?)  over a flight suit (or integrated into) but with standard Mando helmet and gaunts. 


check cheaperthandirt.com they have old military flak jackets pretty cheap and if you wanted to make soft armor that would be your starting point also sportsmansguide.com/hq also has a ton of similar items so good hunting
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Dec 23, 2009, 01:10 AM
My mind tends to accumulate data dn sort it into patterns, ongoingly in the background, all the time. The melange that's evolved out of all of the (often conflicting) backstories from the novels and presskits and comics and storybooks and so forth -- all the way up to the new stuff in the Clone Wars series, for Boba and Jango and others, looks something like this:

After the war that devastated Mandalore, the disarmament movement came into ascendancy. In time, those Mandalorians who remained in their home sector, and hadn't left to become roving mercenaries and bounty hunters, had all but abandoned the resol'nare. The Protectors had been formed as a paramilitary ad-hoc police force whose members didn't even wear the armour except in an official capacity. There was individual cariation, but the consistent trent was medium-green armour and helmets, with yellow shoulder and knee armour -- the colours traditionally associated with duty and vengeance, respectively. (I personally find it interesting that "justice" isn't in the palette.)

When the splinter factions of the Death Watch and the True Mandalorians showed up, it was in contrast to the pacifistic mood of the rest of the sector, and they had to scrimp for support where they could from sympathetic individuals. Jaster Mereel, the founder of the True Mandalorians, had been a Protector. Something happened which hasn't been detailed in the EU yet, and by the time we met him in Open Season, he wasn't any more. My theory (italicized fo remphasis) is that he stripped his Protector colours from his armour when he left/was kicked out of the organization. Many Protectors sided with him against the Death Watch, but the rest were probably civilians who heeded his call, and stripped their armour to bare-metal to show solidarity with Jaster.

I have more about the Apprentice/Journeyman/Master system and visor frame colours, but I note Jaster and Jango kept that, even when the rest of the colour was gone.

So that issue of Republic tends to support this... That even after Jaster's and Jango's death, Spar both kept the Protectors going and had volunteers joining up with him -- some of whom stripped their 'gam as their predacessors had.

Maybe the pressure suits are all green, maybe they're available in a wide variety of off-the-rack colours and all the Mandos we saw during Marve's run happened to like green... *shrug*

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: OriKad on Dec 23, 2009, 02:10 AM
If you think about it, in Marvel's run, we see them fighting a jungle-based guerrilla war for the most part.  Might explain the green.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Dec 23, 2009, 04:39 AM
The jungle-based guerilla war was just #68. #69 was all about Leia being captured and taken to the City of Bone, Shysa infiltrating, freeing her and Dala, and escaping while Dala sacrificed himself to cripple the Imperial base and kill the Suprema. When we next saw Shysa, it was after ROTJ, the Rebels had won, and the Mandos were working with them in the Nagai-Tof war -- all space-combat stuff. That was #99-101, and #107. Still with the green pressure-suits, except for the random panels where Shysa had the white/silver full armour.

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Feb 03, 2010, 11:30 PM
Update time. I've scanned every instance of Shysa appearing in Marvel Star Wars -- mostly #68, some from #s 100, 101, and 107, and one from #99. The variation is rather annoying. Even from panel to panel in a single issue. Not ot mention the colouring matter. I've scanned Boba from the ESB adaptation, and need to get them cleaned up and upladed to show in comparison. He's got the same "all-green-with-white-cheeks" scheme seen in the flashback in #68 -- it wasn't a change in uniform colours from one time period to the next, just inaccuracy/inadequacy of early '80s comics technology.

A reminder, dragged back up from page three of this thread.

Cover:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/Mswc68cover.jpg)

Two-page flashback splash panel:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/Mandaloriansclonewars.jpg)

Actual photo reference for the above:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/bobartesb1.jpg)

Okay, here we go with #68...

First clear appearance (he was a silhouette in the previous couple panels):

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6801.jpg)

Then we get a close-up:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6802.jpg)

'Nother action shot. Note the different blasters now:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6803.jpg)

Taking out one of the slavers. Different blasters again, and note how much higher the missile is on his rocketpack in this panel. Also, the slaver seems to have this artist's version of Mando gloves, gauntlets, and shoulder armour. Another example of Mandos preying on Mandos?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6804.jpg)

Disabling the slaver's control box. Different blasters again. Note the plasma cutter/mini-lightsaber:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6805.jpg)

I wonder how it might have affected the EU if Leia hadn't kept Fenn from getting slightly dead just now. His rangefinder also seems to have the same problem Boba's did in ROTJ ;) :

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6806.jpg)

He's actually giving Leia's blaster back to her after taking out a baddie who jumped her:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6807.jpg)

Not a lot here, but I'm including everything. He finds out she's mad at him because she thinks he's Boba:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6808.jpg)

So he introduces himself and shucks the lid:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6809.jpg)

And lets Leia know she's "invited" back to their camp:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6810.jpg)

Gonna break it here, and do the rest of #68 in the next post.

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Feb 03, 2010, 11:49 PM
Strolling through the camp, and discussing the Empire, the Mandalorian resistance, etc...:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6811.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6812.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6813.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6814.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6815.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6816.jpg)

This is where the flashback panel goes. When we pick up again, it's after dinner and Leia's decided she has to free Dengar (who Shysa's people have captured) and in return he'll tell her where Boba took Han (even though they all knew at the end of ESB). Fenn finds her "going for a stroll" suspicious, but valiantly resists for all of five seconds when she throws herself at him. Frankly, I think he deserved to get "treed" for falling for such an old trick:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6818.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6819.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6820.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6821.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6822.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW6823.jpg)

As always, pay attention to the blasters and rocketpack. Also, in this post and the last, look carefully at the suit itself. From panel to panel, sometimes it looks just padded, sometimes some portions look like hard plates. No consistency.

Of course, it was a trap, Leia is captured and taken to the City of Bone and the Imperial overseer (an alien, very surprisingly). Next issue sees Fenn infiltrate as a Stormtrooper, take out Leia's guards, they bust out Tobbi Dala, who the Suprema shoots, so he tells them to escape while he sacrifices himself to take out the Suprema and the Imperial garrison. I forgot to scan the several panels of Tobbi's undersuit and armour. I was focussing on Fenn, and feel silly now that I skipped this issue. *heh*

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Xyon Koreen on Feb 04, 2010, 12:11 AM
heck, Ive been confused for boba.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Feb 04, 2010, 12:12 AM
The one shot from #99. The only appearance of his "Mandalore" armour.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa--MSW9901.jpg)

This next batch is from #100, when he was at the Rebel encampment on Endor post-ROTJ for tactical training.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10001.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10002.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10003.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10004.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10005.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10006.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10007.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10008.jpg)

Actually more-or-less consistent, even though crappier than the previous artist's version, and dfferent to boot (abdominal quilting is higher and wider, and no quilted chest diamond).

On to #101. Han's getting in Leia's face, so Fenn throws him to the ground.

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10101.jpg)

I love Han's reaction, so I've left the words in :) :

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10102.jpg)

A couple more:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10103.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10104.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10105.jpg)

Nice to have some consistency to the previous issue.

Then things get weird, though. The next couple are from the same issue, but on the bridge of the Rebel command ship. Fenn's helping direct the action. This seems to be intended to be the same "Mandalore" armour from #99, but in execution ends up looking like the quilted "is-it-armour" from #68:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10106.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10107.jpg)

I'm going to include the three from #107 just for completeness. Different artist, crappy (IMO) art, not consistent with anything that's come before, but whatever:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10701.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10702.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/FennShysa-MSW10703.jpg)

I'll be in to clean up a couple of things I missed in some of these images, and to add the scans of Boba from the ESB adaptation for further comparison. Discuss. :D

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Mar'eyce on Feb 15, 2010, 08:18 AM
That is a wealth of reference images! And although they show a variety of looks and some inconsistency, there are some things that seem to remain constant, most noticeably the green suit with the cording and quilting on the front. I would love to see this made; it is so unique and cool.

It's also interesting to see the sigil on Fenn's shoulder plate depicted in more than one image.  Perhaps it is his clan's crest? (I know, I know, it's just something a comic artist in the 80's slapped on him. But I see it as a clan crest)

Anyhow, being that he is never shown with a mythosaur skull(and that casual fans associate it exclusively with Boba anyhow), I think it would be safe to say that Fenn's armor would need to have this design on the shoulders instead of the skull.

I like the white version of the soft suit too. I hope I don't get rotten vegetables thrown at me for saying this, but the use of the chest diamond in the design reminds be of the garb worn by Mando civilians in TCW. *ducks*

EDIT: Eh, looking back at the pic of the three from the flashback in #68, I see that Tobbi has the same design on his shoulder as Fenn  and "Boba" has something similar as well. Protectors emblem maybe?

Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Gratulor on Feb 15, 2010, 10:26 AM
My interpretation is that the Mandalorian Protectors under Spar were more uniform, as Tobbi, Fenn and Spar all wear the green base colour but with differences in certain areas, such as Fenn's blue outlining around the visor are and Tobbi's crimson markings on each shoulder. The white armour on orange only appears after Fenn had freed Mandalore from the Empire, and when he is Mandalore himself.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Dar'manda on Feb 15, 2010, 10:27 AM
The white armour on orange only appears after Fenn had freed Mandalore from the Empire, and when he is Mandalore himself.

I'm actually a fan of that suit, I don't know why more people aren't.
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Feb 15, 2010, 06:28 PM
The symbol on Shysa's and Dala's shoulders are supposed to be the mythosaur badge. Look at the splash page, with the three of them, and compare to the publicity photo that was being used for reference.

As for the colour... Well, here are my scans of Marve's adaptation of Empire. :P

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Feb 15, 2010, 06:38 PM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett1.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett2.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett3.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett4.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett5.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett6.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett7.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett8.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/Adabiel/Mandos/Marvel/MSW--BobaFett9.jpg)

In some of those, they actually got his arms and shoulders right. No badging, though. Helmet's in the same colours as we'd see later in #68, and then there are the other inconsistencies -- like having a yellow belly plate in one panel, of a yellow flap on one of his side belt pouches, or an orange sleeve with a grey half-sleeve, or a yellow rocketpack thrust nozzle, or... *chuckle*

So I still advocate "retro-fitting" any Fenn Shysa or Tobbi Dala costume back to the correct ESB colours, and the green being a pressure/thermal suit under the coverall.

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Aug 08, 2013, 03:02 PM
So I killed the thread a few years back, but I'm reviving it again now, as progress is happening and opinions are sought.

Where I'm at with this, concept-wise...

The Big Issues
• Artistic laziness or inattention to detail back in the early '80s resulted in an appearance that was only vestigially similar from panel to panel, issue to issue; and elements with specific canon reference (characters, props, vessels, etc.) often only somewhat resembling the source.

• semi-related to the above, early '80s comic coloring technology and comic colorists/practices resulted in everything with canon reference (i.e., Boba Fett's armor) being grotesquely inaccurate, and usually inconsistent from panel to panel, and issue to issue.

• The nature of the costume debuted in issue #68.

Specifics (and my approaches/solutions to them)
• As I showed earlier in this thread, both the cover and interior artist managed to interpret the partially-visible mythosaur badge on Boba's left shoulder plate in the publicity photo they were working from as a circular badge with a 'T' shape in it. I can see, from the portion of the actual badge that's visible in the photo, how they could have done this, but it's still lazy and wrong. No nice way to soften that. :-[ For armor purposes, I am just going with the good old ESB badge. For this suit, I am going with a pair of beautiful mythosaur sigil patches I found (the symbol shows up on one shoulder, the other, both, and neither throughout Fenn's appearances, and I'm going to put at least one on the left shoulder, maybe both on both shoulders -- we'll see).

• Colors... The preponderance of his depictions show him in a hunter green suit with lighter green piping. This is what I'm doing, neck to cuffs. For the armored-up look in the flashback splash panel, I'm going straight ESB Boba as my starting point, fabrics and colors, with the differences that are specifically Fenn -- ammo belt pouches, helmet deco, level of weathering, gauntlets, etc. Since Marve's ESB adaptation depicted Boba with all green body, as in the MSW #68 splash panel, and that's not accurate to the movie, I have no problem adjusting that back to movie colors, and bringing Fenn's armor along, too. Ditto the helmet, which was depicted in the ESB adaptation with white cheeks, which was wrong, and thus I'm doing Fenn's helmet in Boba colors.

• Gauntlet blasters... He basically has mirrored versions of Boba's right gauntlet on right and left arms, with different upper mounts than Boba's. No big bulky flamethrower gauntlet. No connecting hoses. The appearance of the blasters varied a bit from panel to panel. I sketched out each one, derived consistent characteristics, drew up plans at 1:1 for the gestalt blaster template, and have hunted up most of the hardware I need to build them.

• The suit itself... As said earlier in this thread, everything in MSW #68 makes me feel this is a pressure-suit a la high-altitude pressure suits pilots and early astronauts wore -- a thin sandwich of thermal-regulating material, protective outer layer, skin-adjacent comfort layer. There are areas that look wrinkly, like regularly-behaving fabric, and areas that look stiffer, as though there's something behind the fabric preventing wrinkling. Those semistiff areas are approximately where the hard outer armor plates are -- around the collar area, down the front (with lines and cutouts following the general shapes of the armor plates), upper arms (with even bulkier pads covering the shoulders), and knees. I am making it following the example of real-world pressure and anti-g suits: polyester suiting in hunter green for the outer layer, a lighter green fabric to cover quarter-inch piping for the trimwork, darker green satin for the quilted belly panel. I have thin foam kneepads that fit perfectly as shoulder bells that I'm going to wrap with the hunter green fabric and attach to the sleeves. I have a tab made for the cape attachment on the left shoulder. And I'm looking at other options to aid in comfort (and, ironically, would add some verisimilitude).

Unanswered and/or Unanswerable Questions
• I am making Boba-style shin tools, even though we never see that low when he's fully armored up. I'll probably leave those pockets empty, but want to have options, in case.

• Similarly, I have a lovely pair of JangoWes' Boba boots that I need to weather and add toe spikes to. Again, we never get real good detail shots of his boots, except when he's wearing his "Mandalore Fenn" armor.

• My biggest concern is people who will adamantly refuse to accept that an inaccurate depiction should be corrected. As there's a Holiday Special version of Boba, and versions of all the variations over the films -- and also movie and animated versions of Clonetroopers -- I have no problem with someone even doing a "Marvel Comics style" Boba costume, with yellow belly plate, orange half-sleeves, white cheeks on the helmet, etc. It's not accurate to the film, but is accurate to one of the EU depictions. *shrug* But I can't accept it as accurate to the source material, and since Tobbi and Fenn are drawn to more-or-less match Boba in that splash panel, and since Tobbi's armor later in #69 is consistent with his appearance there... well, I have no problem correcting them back to the same movie-accurate coloration as I would with Boba. So I'm building the pressure suit to be an inner layer under the flight suit. I'm using mythosaur skull badge(s) instead of the Circle-T badge. And I'm using ESB colors (and some detailing, such as with the glove appliquιs' quilting) rather than the colors in the comic, where they conflict with canon. I am using the comics as the primary reference for details and colors that don't have a depiction in higher canon to contradict them.

I don't know if my approach would ever be approvable here or with the 501st, as the source material is inconsistent and canon-derived elements conflict with canon, but it's how I'm going forward with it. I would appreciate any feedback, suggestions, or opinions that are not attempting to tell me I'm wrong. ;)

Oh, and I've seen some people say he has blond hair. Sorry, Fenn's a ginger -- red hair and blue eyes. You can see him next to Luke in one panel I scanned for this thread and his hair -- which is the same shade, more or less, throughout his Marvel appearances is distinctly redder than Luke's, who is a blonde.

Once I've gotten some thoughts on this in this thread here (hopefully, some from app team and/or Mercs council members), I'll start a WIP thread. One thing from those weighing in I'd ask for is which board section I should put it in -- Canon armor (cuz this pressure suit isn't "armor" in the sense it's generally used in the club), Soft Goods, Other Costumes...?

--Jonah
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Hondo Karr on Aug 08, 2013, 04:23 PM
Well, you know my thoughts on it as we have gone round and round lol. I have no doubt your build will turn beautiful and a great example of a wonderful "Mandalorian Protector" style costume. But, my personal feelings is, if you don't go as close to the only canon source images as possible, it's simply not Fenn Shysa. I rememebr at SDCC... 09 I think, Danakin had a BEAUTIFUL Mando kit on. He called it Fenn Shysa. It looked pretty much exactly as you described you'll do yours. At the end of the day, it didn't look anything like Fenn as seen in the only canon sources (which admittedly VARY DRASTICALLY but some consistencies can be found as well as an "overall" consistency much as I did with my Hondo armor), it looked like ESB Boba Fett with jag eyes and no dent.

Like I said, I have no doubt the costume will turn out wonderful but, it simply won't look like Fenn Shysa to the population of fans who know the character.

As for Mercs, Im pretty certain unless it matches up as close as possible to the totality of the references, they wouldnt be able to approve it as Fenn however, Shenn Fysa may work just fine. As for the 501st, well... you know as well as I, it's has to match the visible reference period, no wiggle room and you have to have references of front, back and both sides (not 3 validated sources as has always been the old wives told that was believed to be the standing orders).

Good luck my friend. I do look forward to seeing it come to life (finally :P).
Title: Re: Fenn Shysa's canon appearance?
Post by: Peregrinus on Aug 08, 2013, 11:03 PM
Well, you know my issues with Danakin's kit. *heh*

For the fully armored up/Clone Wars era version that's still a bit off from being finished, I just ask that you wait on final judgement (which I know you will anyway, P.J.) until you see it finished.

I'm doing mirrored Boba right gauntlets for the gauntlet bases and building up the blasters and their supports as close as I can manage to their appearance in the Marvel run (the illustration from the magazine has gauntlet blasters that don't look anything like the Marvel ones -- yeah, he could've upgraded from one to the other at some point, but...). When his schedule allows, I'm going to be tasking BooBooFett with the ammo belt, the six Boba style pouches across the back, the six Shysa-specific, double-wide ones across the front, and the "saddlebag" pouches to match, as seen in Marvel. I've got one of the accurate ESB capes, which matches the color of his cape in Marvel (with the added, not-easily-seen detail of the faded orange stripe). I've built the tab you can see holding the cape on in one of the close-up panels. I'll be able to include that in this full-armor version, or not, as...

I'm trying to do as faithful an interpretation of the Marvel pressure suit (what I'll keep calling it for convenience) as I can manage. The color fabric I got looks very close to the comic, and also matches the Panzer Olive Green paint on the armor beautifully (as I'll show in the WIP thread), so that tab will fit the look equally well on the pressure suit or full armor. The other fabric colors fit well, too.

The pattern I've mostly drafted averages out the conflicting details of the Marvel pressure suit nicely, I think. For that, I'm mainly asking whether I should start that in this subforum, Soft Goods, or "non-Mando"?

The ammo belt, gauntlets, and cape carry over to this suit for the Marvel-accurate look, so that's no issue. I think the only potential sticking points for other people will be the ESB-colored flight suit, flak vest, and gloves; the no-white-cheeks helmet; and the use of the ESB mythosaur badge instead of the sloppy Circle-T thing. I know the knee-jerk reaction to that, and I still stand by my reasoning that if his coloration matched Boba's, and they got Boba's wrong, then his coloring should match what Boba's was supposed to be. And I know we may have to agree to disagree on that -- at least until the rest of the armor's done, then we'll see...

--Jonah