Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club

Mandalorian Armor => Equipment & Accessories => Jetpacks/Backpacks => Topic started by: Mijo on Apr 06, 2010, 10:58 PM

Title: an idea
Post by: Mijo on Apr 06, 2010, 10:58 PM
has anyone thought of building a personal cooling system into their backpack/jetpack?

because i might have some ideas...
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Slade Kel on Apr 06, 2010, 11:06 PM
I think there's been talk of it occasionally, but I don't believe anyone's ever actually done it. Usually is just a couple fans in the bucket and a water bladder in the backpack.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Dar'manda on Apr 06, 2010, 11:10 PM
Hopefully later this summer i'll have something to show you along those lines :D
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Mijo on Apr 06, 2010, 11:13 PM
-nods-

what about adding an underlayer with tubing in it that has cool water pumped through it, cooled and pumped by components in the backpack?
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Dar'manda on Apr 06, 2010, 11:15 PM
-nods-

what about adding an underlayer with tubing in it that has cool water pumped through it, cooled and pumped by components in the backpack?

power source of a goodly amount would be needed for something like that scale, and the weight on your back would likely cancel out the cooling benefits.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Mijo on Apr 06, 2010, 11:28 PM
fair point. but i'm sure I can come up with something. i'll keep you guys and gals updated.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Dar'manda on Apr 06, 2010, 11:29 PM
Honestly, for the amount of time and money invested in alternate cooling, discreetly place screen mesh and multiple fans work best... Especially placing the fans so they may use the mesh openings to circulate air in an dout rather than around.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Slade Kel on Apr 07, 2010, 12:15 AM
But hey, if you can come up with something balancing cheapness, weight and effectiveness, I'm sure plenty of us would be interested to hear about it ;D.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Mijo on Apr 07, 2010, 12:59 AM
So far the heart of the cooling system involves a bladder much like those found in hydration systems with those plastic jobs that you put water in and freeze to put in your coolers snuggled up next to it, and it might be possible to work it so that the water's pumped through the tubes by the compression of the boot soles that naturally happens when walking... but that's pretty much a second draft theory with no practical experience behind it.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Praetor Ordo on Apr 07, 2010, 01:03 AM
I was looking, at one point, to add a few squirrel fans into my backpack and then connect them to hoses to my cheeks (like TIE Pilots).  But, that design has been tossed in lieu of my Assassin plans now (once M-DSB releases them).
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Mijo on Apr 07, 2010, 01:20 AM
I was looking, at one point, to add a few squirrel fans into my backpack and then connect them to hoses to my cheeks (like TIE Pilots).  But, that design has been tossed in lieu of my Assassin plans now (once M-DSB releases them).

i can also see adding some fans like they have for computer towers into the 'ears' of the bucket, considering effecting the temp around the head can adjust body comfort by up to 40%. which is why i've been thinking of having a hood/mask combo option for when it's really hot...
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: No'saj Huune on Apr 07, 2010, 02:10 AM
I thought about it but the weight of the back plus the back plate would basically cancel the cooling with how hot it gets here in TX.  I'm just sewing in a mesh layer on the inside back of my vest and inserting some ice packs to the lower back and shoulders.  But if someone comes up with something light and efficient I'd love to hear it.  Especially if it can stand up to 110+ degree tempatures.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Slade Kel on Apr 07, 2010, 02:44 AM
Shab, Texas? I was stationed at Goodfellow AFB, in San Angelo...call it a 150-200 miles west of Fort Hood. I assume the temp's the same...and let me say I don't envy you doing summer troops in armor. I used to hate summers there in shorts and a t-shirt.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Kantis Nolef on Apr 07, 2010, 05:46 AM
So what I think you're looking for is a "cool suit" like they use in movies when an actor is wearing a full body costume. I did a google search and came up with this (http://www.dskool.com/edskool/personal-coolingsystem-dp-101.htm).
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: OriKad on Apr 07, 2010, 11:40 AM
Liquid cooling is a great concept, because you only have to cool your torso, and you only have to add a total of ten pounds to your back. (5 for the pump, mini-cooler, and power source, 5 for the ice and water) and you should have the hoses filled with antifreeze rather than water so you can actually let it sit unused, and only start the pump for five minutes or so at a time when you need to shed a few degrees of excess heat.

It can also be used with hot water in the cooler for those cold northern winter troops.

Essentially, you run tubes up and down your torso (Siphon effect counteracts the "uphill pump" problem) and then run a few loops of the tube through the inside of the cooler.  When the fluid goes through the cooler it's either shedding your excess body heat into ice, or absorbing heat from your hot water.  You really don't need much, and the cooling effect cuts more than enough heat fatigue to overbalance weight fatigue when used properly.

More weight can be cut if you made it a plug-in system and only used it to refresh yourself for a few minutes every hour or so by plugging into a table power source, going to your hotel room, or even using a car battery, like the racing pros do (CoolShirt under their racing suits.  Those guys have it far worse than we do, thermally)

Call it a DIY CoolShirt.  You could get a REAL CoolShirt system, but that's prohibitively expensive.

The main thing to remember is that you don't leave it turned on all the time.  That's a ticket to hypothermia.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Mijo on Apr 07, 2010, 11:49 AM
thanks for the help, ner vode. i'll see what i can jury rig together once i get all the materials in.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Geber Teg on Apr 07, 2010, 02:30 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread. I've been thinking along these line for a while; glad to know I'm not the only one. I know DARPA has had various labs developing cooling vests and such. Hopefully, something like that will soon be available on the civilian market.

I was looking, at one point, to add a few squirrel fans into my backpack and then connect them to hoses to my cheeks (like TIE Pilots).  But, that design has been tossed in lieu of my Assassin plans now (once M-DSB releases them).

I've also been considering something very much like that. I'm thinking probably something like the SafetyTech International (http://www.safetytechint.com/products/military.php) C420 or C430 Blowers inside of a pack with the hose connected to my bucket cheek.

(http://www.safetytechint.com/images/products/C420-PAPR.jpg)

(http://www.safetytechint.com/images/products/C420-Blowers.jpg)

(http://www.safetytechint.com/images/products/National-Guard-Kit.jpg)

(http://www.safetytechint.com/images/products/Responder-CBRN-PAPR.jpg)

(http://www.safetytechint.com/images/C430.jpg)


EDIT: I just discovered, if you do an eBay search for "PAPR" or "Powered Air Purifying Respirator," you can find these blowers including the breathing tube for about $60-$65.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: OriKad on Apr 07, 2010, 04:22 PM
There are cooling vests on the market already.  Last I checked a vest and cooling unit were in the range of $600.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Slade Kel on Apr 07, 2010, 04:24 PM
You can find what amounts to vests with built-in panels for liquid gel ice packs for relatively cheap. On the other hand, you can just grab a few gel ice packs and build panels into your existing vest. Another good trick for keeping cool is to either make a vest with straps that leave the sides relatively open, or make one with mesh sides and back, like military desert tactical vests.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Tabor Iviin'yc on Apr 07, 2010, 09:04 PM
Just because I work for them and like to see credit appropriately given, ILC Dover did some of the first work in this area for the Apollo space suit.  They came up with the LCVG (liquid cooling and ventilation garment) that they still use to keep astronauts cool during EVAs.  The Cool Vest was a descendant to the LCVG and the ones they use in movies and stuff all come from these.  On the subject of building a functioning vest, I'm going to agree that the weight is probably going to cancel out the cooling benefits for a serious vest with a powered chiller, but if you stick to cooling just the torso and use an ice-water bath for the chiller, you might come up with something workable.  As far as I know Frank Hebert made the first mention of heel pumps in Dune.  The Fremen stilsuits used them.  I doubt that it would really be enough to overcome gravity, plus you'd need to pump your feet while standing still and I don't think any of us want to present the image of a Mando who is in desperate need of a 'fresher.  The PAPR could be a really good idea though.  They have pretty serious airflow and some have rechargeable batteries.  They can get pretty heavy though and would only work for someone planning on having a big hose going into their helmet.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Geber Teg on Apr 07, 2010, 10:32 PM
As far as I know Frank Hebert made the first mention of heel pumps in Dune.  The Fremen stilsuits used them.  I doubt that it would really be enough to overcome gravity, plus you'd need to pump your feet while standing still and I don't think any of us want to present the image of a Mando who is in desperate need of a 'fresher.

I LOVE DUNE!!! I've always wanted a stillsuit. If you could get them to work properly, heel pumps might be the perfect solution for keeping cool on a parade march. Also, it might be an interesting effect if you used a big block of dry ice to chill the coolant in your environmental pack. You could have the 'exhaust' wisping out of some vent.


The PAPR could be a really good idea though.  They have pretty serious airflow and some have rechargeable batteries.  They can get pretty heavy though and would only work for someone planning on having a big hose going into their helmet.

Planning on the rechargeable batteries and the big hose in the side of my bucket. ;)
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Nio'be Tavell on Apr 15, 2010, 01:28 AM
My husband and I were actually discussing this last night. He came up with the tubing method discussed here, but he was thinking of running it off a motorcycle fuel pump and battery. We're getting the parts from his family's shop within the next couple weeks and will be giving it a test run.. All things considered, it wouldn't exactly be a cheap option, but it'd be a lot less expensive than buying a pre-built one.

My only concern is the flexibility and durability of the tubes. Having one break at a convention would be messy and unpleasant.  Even moreso if it was filled with antifreeze.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Geber Teg on Apr 15, 2010, 03:26 PM
I found US Military pilots cooling vests on eBay for around $25+S&H. The run on an air supply (not the music), but I don't know anything about the type of connector they have; I imagine it would be easy enough to modify. It might not be as efficient as a liquid cooling vest, but air is a lot lighter and less messy.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: No'saj Huune on Apr 15, 2010, 06:15 PM
If they are anything like the one I wore you would have to make a new vest to cover it then make new "Heavy" armor to it would look right.  Otherwise you'll look out of proportion.  Good idea and yes, should be easy to modify to hook up to....

Ok you know what I just thought of and its been sitting right in front of me this entire time...

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/cartoonfansclub_2098_30893580)

Ok stop laughing, this could actually work and its cheap.  This is the Superman Returns Inflato-Costume.  My 10yr old got this when the movie came out and as a joke I tried it on and surprised by just how hard that fan blew air all around me.  It was a little loud but with some petrolium jelly aka Vasoline, it got much quieter. 

It should be really easy to adapt the fan on this suit (or the Hulk, Captain America, or Spider-Man versions) to the vest you mentioned or to your backpack.  Heck I think I'm gonna try it myself.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Geber Teg on Apr 16, 2010, 05:16 PM
If they are anything like the one I wore you would have to make a new vest to cover it then make new "Heavy" armor to it would look right.  Otherwise you'll look out of proportion.  Good idea and yes, should be easy to modify to hook up to....


Did they look anything like this?

(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-001.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-002.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-003.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-006.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-008.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-009.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-004.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-005.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-007.jpg)
(http://www.haas-ausruestungen.de/images/microclimatevest-010.jpg)
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: No'saj Huune on Apr 16, 2010, 05:32 PM
Actually no, that ones about half the size.
Title: Re: an idea
Post by: Zahr Lestin on Jul 17, 2010, 09:57 AM
I was thinking of installing one that uses a backpack with a pump and cooling system in it that would pump cool liquid through tubes installed in the flight suit. I think it would work but you would have to be careful not to accidentally cut the tubes. Thats my idea. Hope someone uses it! OYA MANDO!!

Zahr