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[Cattriss Wren]

I like the slits on the earcaps the helmet looks nice too!! Congrats on being a official bucket owner.

[Yorwoin]

That's looking very nice! Welcome to the bucket society.

[Tramp Graphics]

I would say that if your nose is fitting through the visor gap unless the helmet is touching the back of your head, then the helmet is too small. The same thing if your ears touch the sides. I would definitely increase the size of the helmet and try again. It definitely looks a bit on the small side. Nice job for a first try though.

[Fenn Beviin]

Buckets are notoriously difficult to put on with glasses. If it's already that difficult to get the helmet on with your glasses and your plan is to also add in fans and wear a microphone/headset you might need a larger size 

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

OK, I'm now leaning towards printing another helmet. At first I was really bummed about that. It's probably best that I stop worrying about my budget so much and allow myself to make mistakes! This one will stay on my table and judge me for my procrastination.

But honestly, even if I don't finish this one, It's still really exciting to have a physical helmet. I wore it around yesterday, and when I brushed my hair later, a whole bunch of filament chunks came out.

Something quite concerning I read about: apparently, you shouldn't print PETG above 240C, because anything above 250 could melt the PTFE in the hotend and release a neurotoxin. When I was having delamination issues at 240, I raised it to the highest temp recommended by the filament supplier: 250. I don't know if my hotend is toast or if I have brain damage, but either way doesn't sound super great.

So, I shouldn't do PETG until I upgrade to a hotend without PTFE, and I think I'll keep my printer as default until I have more experience and understand what upgrades I need. I'm looking into PLA+ as an alternative.

Any ideas on how much bigger I should print it?

[Yorwoin]

I think the general rule for helmet sizes is 1/3 of your overall width (shoulder to shoulder). I did actual head measurements so it would fit and modelled them accordingly. I would recommend using a fabric tape measure and doing some measurements of your head so you can compare those to the helmet you have. Honestly, it's not too far off. Maybe a few centimeters difference in radius. You should be able to up the sizes incrementally in the slicer software. The best thing you can do is measure and plan.

I would not print at the max temp of any filament if you can help it. High temps usually lead to globing or stringing, which you can see a lot of inside the helmet. The delaminations are usually caused by rapid cooling of the layers (if my understanding of PETG is right). Raising the temp *could* help, but so would turning off the fan on higher layers. I used to print ABS, which behaves similarly, though does not string and hates cooling. I needed to enclose the printer in a box to keep heat trapped so the layers had an event heating.

I think PLA+ would be a better option. PLA in general is really user friendly and requires less work to get moving correctly. However, PLA+ will require higher temperatures to print. Thus is the nature of these materials: Higher heat resistance means higher hot-end temperature to print. If you are worried about heat issues, you could fiberglass resin the back of the pieces, but PLA+ should not have that issue. That would be something I would do with PLA.

Press on, Vod. You are off to a good start!

[Tramp Graphics]

Specifically, the rule is based on your shoulder width in full kit. For people with narrow shoulders, that often means making shoulder armor specially designed to widen the look of their shoulders.

[Arkham]

I think the general rule for helmet sizes is 1/3 of your overall width (shoulder to shoulder). I did actual head measurements so it would fit and modelled them accordingly. I would recommend using a fabric tape measure and doing some measurements of your head so you can compare those to the helmet you have. Honestly, it's not too far off. Maybe a few centimeters difference in radius. You should be able to up the sizes incrementally in the slicer software. The best thing you can do is measure and plan.

The rule is 1/2 the shoulder width.

Per the CRLs:

Helmet size will be judged on a case by case basis. Generally, the helmet’s width should not greatly fall short of or exceed 1/2 the width of the wearer’s shoulders measured from armored shoulder plate to armored shoulder plate.

As for measuring your helmet to your head for 3D printing, keep in mind your printer thinks in terms of the X/Y/Z axis. As such, I would measure your head the same way. Assuming the visor is facing the front of your printer, you would measure your head:

• Side-to-side for X
• Front-to-back for Y
• Top-to-bottom for Z

You should be able to see the measurements for the helmet file in you slicer.

Then figure out how much space you want inside your helmet. Example: if you set the Y of your helmet to match the Y of your head, the tip of you nose would be even with the outside of your helmet. So, figure out how much space you want between the end of your nose and the inside of your visor. Then, make this your helmet measurement (Be sure to subtract the width of your helmet walls).

The same can be done for X and Z. There is nothing that says you have to increase them all evenly. Someone with a taller head may increase their Z by 120%, where they increase all of the other only by 103%.

See if the overall width of your resized helmet equates to about have your shoulder width, in armor, and you should be ready to go.

[Karson Wren]

Pity about the bucket but at least you have an incredibly cool paper weight 

Good lucknon the next print 

[Celtkhan]

The great thing about having a 3d printer isn’t that you can print your designs; there are any number of online services which will do that for you. The great thing about having a 3d printer is being able to prototype and iterate (relatively) quickly.

My first gauntlet design had limited range of motion, so I redesigned and reprinted. Unfortunately, my hotend thermistor died, so my printer is deadlined until the replacement arrives, but then I’ll be back to work on the rest of it.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Very good info, everyone! It looks like I need to get my shoulders figured out before I size my helmet. I really need to get back to cardboard and finalize my kit concept. There's a May 4th troop I want to see if I can attend, so I need to get to work.

I ran back to Microcenter and exchanged a PLA roll I had for PLA+. I should print some calibration cubes so I'm ready for the next print! Perhaps my rifle?

[Celtkhan]

If you have a temp tower set up, I’d print that first. PLA+ has a different temp profile than PLA, so you want to make sure you’re in the zone.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Interesting! I didn't know about temp towers, I'll go ahead and print one to see what works best.

I put some thought into a pulse rifle concept. As discussed waaaaay earlier in the thread, a local convention has some strict firearm rules, most notably a requirement for 50% of it being a bright color. I'm interested in the challenge of making this work for my kit! They never got back to me when I emailed them last year so I put this together and sent a follow up:



I used some EU Mandalorian color meanings in this:

White: "a new start", used on the Mando symbol. In-universe, I think Arco might be a foundling. Out-of-universe, I'm hoping this build brings me out of my shell and earns me confidence in crafting and pursuing my goals!
Orange: "a lust for life", used as the main color. See above reasonings.
Gold: "vengeance", used for accents and notably on the trigger. Because if someone gets war crime'd by Arco, there's a reason! 

Started work on some cardboard shoulder concepts. They're harder than I thought! Will hopefully have something to show tomorrow.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Heard back from security about my rifle. I'll be adding a removable linen wrap to cover the trigger and some of the stock, then I should be good to go! Maybe I'll add beads / fangs / hunting trophies too. Looking forward to leaning into the primal / futuristic vibe (is there a term for that genre?).

I've been working on pauldron mockups, embracing the spiky aesthetic for a narglatch breeder. I'll be adding ridges to all the sides / centers of the final plates to give them a Post-Imperial touch.

This one is based off the MandoCreator concept:





This is something I threw together for curiosity:





I'm thinking about leg armor and wondering if I should use canon covert plates or design my own. I like incorporating canon elements, but if I design them myself, I can make something that suits the spiky shoulders better. I'll think it through while working on my next chestplate iteration!

[Cattriss Wren]

Really like the spike design of the plates. Rifle is cool too.

[Yorwoin]

I am liking the first set of shoulders. Both are really neat though!

[Karson Wren]

Heard back from security about my rifle. I'll be adding a removable linen wrap to cover the trigger and some of the stock, then I should be good to go! Maybe I'll add beads / fangs / hunting trophies too. Looking forward to leaning into the primal / futuristic vibe (is there a term for that genre?).

I've been working on pauldron mockups, embracing the spiky aesthetic for a narglatch breeder. I'll be adding ridges to all the sides / centers of the final plates to give them a Post-Imperial touch.

This one is based off the MandoCreator concept:





This is something I threw together for curiosity:





I'm thinking about leg armor and wondering if I should use canon covert plates or design my own. I like incorporating canon elements, but if I design them myself, I can make something that suits the spiky shoulders better. I'll think it through while working on my next chestplate iteration!

Wow, those are both really interesting. The second looks almost like a royal guard type thing.

In terms of leg armor, maybe the mandocreator legacy thighplates?

[AboveAverageGeek]

I love the second shoulder concept! Also I wanted to say that I've been lurking in this thread for awhile and your process has been incredible to watch. Super inspiring. Also, I think that regardless of which shoulder concept you go with, the more personalized design for the leg armor would suit your kit quite well.

[Jennari]

I prefer the first shoulder concept.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Thanks for the input, everyone. It's reassuring to see they're both liked!

In terms of leg armor, maybe the mandocreator legacy thighplates?

For sure! If I go for a non-PI design, it will largely be based on the MandoCreator plates like the shoulders are. They look fantastic, but it's worth noting that the legacy design is created by a fan and is not technically from canon -- also, although they're approvable for PI, legacy plates typically fall under modern era.

I love the second shoulder concept! Also I wanted to say that I've been lurking in this thread for awhile and your process has been incredible to watch. Super inspiring. Also, I think that regardless of which shoulder concept you go with, the more personalized design for the leg armor would suit your kit quite well.

That's super flattering, I hope my thought processes and experiments are helpful! Yes, the personalized designs are tempting -- even if I use the canon plates, I'd have to figure out how to paint 'em up all spiky to match.


It just occurred to me that I should repost the current concept iteration for reference:



So, the first shoulder design is angular, chunky, and imposing, while the second one is rounder and more elegant. After some thought, I favor the bolder look of the first design and its more imposing silhouette. On the other hand, the smaller frame of the second design would be less likely to bump into things, and the round shape is more reminiscent of PI pauldrons.

By the way, if anyone wants to use the cardboard designs I'm throwing around, they are more than welcome to! I can snap a pic of flat templates if there's interest.

I'm going down the rabbithole of design lore! Big typeup of my findings, screenshots, and thoughts incoming...

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Time for a worldbuilding tangent! I've been looking at live action Mandos and trying to determine where Arco fits in, as that factors into character design. We've seen three groups of Mandos so far, so let's take a look!


First, the Children of the Watch. They are low on beskar, and it shows -- their armor is mismatched, asymmetrical, and unbalanced. Some plates are missing. Some plates are not even Mandalorian in origin. Note Din's design, for example. This is a concept from the artbook:



Compared to the final costume:



Quote in the artbook about Din from character designer and concept artist Brian Matyas:



Quote from ScreenRant:

Matyas reveals Mando’s armor incorporates elements from trophy kills. “I started pilfering from some pieces of designs that I really liked, like the shoretroopers and death troopers,” he explains. “Essentially, we’ve only seen them in Rogue One. I would think they’re rare. So, if he has a bounty where he kills one, it’s like a trophy.” Interestingly enough, though, it seems these trophies have gradually been replaced over the course of the series. Din Djarin obtained a large quantity of beskar for turning in Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian season 1, and this was forged into replacement parts for his armor. She specifically replaces a shoulder pad, which had originally been taken from a Shoretrooper.

Considering the CotW's disdain for the Empire, I always found it surprising they would use plates from troopers due to how sacred Mandalorian armor is -- but the trophy angle adds some perspective. They are practical and take what they can get during the armor shortage, but as noted above, these pieces are the first to be replaced when beskar is found. Notably, Din opted to keep his repainted shoretrooper shnee, which appears to be a common trophy for the CotW -- though many PI Mandalorians use leather wraps rather than shin armor.

If you're interested in the creation of Din, I recommend this interview with Brian Matyas. He goes into the process it took to get him onscreen.

It's also worth looking at how Din's armor changed from S1 to S2:



He started in episode 1 with repurposed and durasteel plates. When he got his beskar pauldron, he replaced the shoretrooper shoulder. When he upgraded to beskar, he kept his right durasteel thigh plate at first, only patching up the damaged areas. It was only in season two when he replaced it fully:



Let's take a look at the other CotW Mandos. These are official concepts in the artbook, also by Brian Matyas. Not canon, but canon-adjacent enough to be used for inspiration, in my opinion:





These bad boys are apparently from the card trader app. Not sure how canon that is either, but I'll file them under canon-adjacent.



This is from the VFX department, they are models used in the final scene of episode 3:



Here's a mando from concept to screen:



Please check out this thread from TheDentedHelmet -- some of these images came directly from here, and there are even more great references I didn't crosspost. TheCovertTribe did a lot of impressive legwork connecting the concepts to the show, very interesting stuff!

Also look through this album of enhanced Episode 3 screenshots put together by Sakane. Very useful canon references!

As an aside, while looking for information about the CotW, I read someone call episode 3 "The Great Baby Yoda Caper" and thought that delightful tidbit was worth sharing.


Next, let's look at the Post-Imperial (?) Death Watch. I made an album of screenshots from the episode 8 flashback.



Their design fits the "Post-Imperial" category, but this flashback technically takes place during the Clone Wars. Importantly, this is before the Great Purge, so beskar was presumably not in short supply. They would be more likely to use beskar or durasteel rather than scavenge for trooper armor.

Death Watch mandos have differing paint accents, but all of them have very similar armor plates to the point of being uniform. Many of these plate designs are used by the CotW, which makes sense given their connection. I did notice two variations of the small thigh plate: the one with the off-center divot, and the one with the center ridge. Recall that the off-center divot was used by V1 Din, which he later replaced with the center ridge design.

I'd like to bring attention back to the concept art that shows repurposed plates:



Din's left shoulder and a thigh piece are said to be repurposed. However, these designs match what the Death Watch were using here, back before there was a beskar shortage. Given how uniformly and cohesively these plates are used in the Death Watch, I'm going to assume that this changed from concept to show, and these plate designs are now Mandalorian in origin.


And finally, the Nite Owls. I took a truly absurd amount of screenshots from episode 11.



Notice Bo-Katan's shin plates -- don't see many of those in the PI era!



They are not wearing a uniform like the Death Watch is, but even so, their plates are cohesive, color matched, and balanced: two thigh plates, two tasset plates, two knees, etc. Note that Bo-Katan and Koska have different variations of the same chest plate. They also have shoulder, tasset, and shin designs that are not seen elsewhere. Axe, on the other hand, uses the same plates as the Death Watch, specifically the variation with the thigh plate divot. If we'd seen feminine mandos in the Death Watch scene, I wonder if they'd have the same plates as the Nite Owls?

As mentioned in the animated series, beskar is traditionally passed down through families for generations and reforged for the new wearer. Both the Death Watch and the Nite Owls give the impression that their armor sets are complete and forged specifically for them. This is interesting compared to the CotW's cobbled together look -- perhaps foundlings (which I assume comprise a good chunk of the CotW) don't inherit their armor as much as other Mandalorian groups do.

I don't think any other Nite Owl plates match the CotW's. I wonder how these designs spread through the clans!

For additional references, the Nite Owls and Death Watch mandos have figurines that seem to be accurate -- and much easier on the eyes than the dark, motion-blurred screenshots.




Okay, that was a lot. My brain is mush right now. Feel free to share your own thoughts and observations, and any additional references you may have!

Now, how does this information apply to Arco? The next few days, I'll review the references above, watch a few more episodes for screenshots, and work through my thoughts. Another writeup incoming!

[AboveAverageGeek]

I was just about to start this research for my own kit, and you beat me to it. Thanks for sharing. Trying to figure out where a character fits in to the existing universe is simultaneously daunting and exciting. I'm excited to dive into your screen shots.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Hey, nice! If you find something in your research that I didn't see, please do share. It's a bit intimidating to try and sort things out when we don't know what new lore will come in season 3!

[Karson Wren]

I know there's way more to it than this in the in universe cannon, but in terms of death watch mandos in an era where there was an abundance of beskar i think it was just reuse. You know, the budget's only so big.

I'll try abd think of something in cannon though.


Amyway i just want you to know how much i adore the kinds of posts. 

[Yorwoin]

Here are my 2 cents,

The PI period is a very dark time for Mandalorians and the artstyle for them really makes it clear (and your resources point out, which are really cool btw). They lack beskar, numbers, and their home. So, most PI armor setups are cobbled together for the average Mando. People like Bo-Katan and the Night Owls have kept their armor from the past decades, but they are an exception like Din Djarin. Universe wise, trying to explain opulent or clean armor can be difficult, especially when the universe continues to add information.

You could always wait to write a clear backstory since it is not required. Though, I understand the appeal of writing a story in the interim. I do find it helpful to write a backstory and add those details into the armor. For instance, dents, trophies, or sigils can have their own story reason for being there.

_{Spoilers for those who haven't watched TCW or Rebels}
The Deathwatch have always been a sect in the Mandalorian clans; even their legends armor is different than the normal supercommando armor. It is possible the variation in armor comes from the period near the very end of the clone wars. Specifically, those that would not follow Maul running away back to Concordia. We can glean that the Children of the Watch are a subset of the Deathwatch. *Maybe* that variation was to distinguish themselves from the other Mandalorians again. I find this reasonable since the Protectors have another armor variation. Therefore, the armor variation seems dictated by subculture rather than merely being Mandalorian.

Here are my ideas if you wanted suggestions: Looking at your concept, it seems primarily constructed of beskar. It is possible they gained this material from tradition, hardwork, or stumbled upon it. The colors reminiscent of the Wrens, but it is unclear whether they survived or varied their armor. Though, I would not let that stop you if that is where you want to go. Outside of the large ideas, I think it would be really cool to see trophies around the belt line. I have seen imperial rank plaques, cylinder codes, Mandalorian diamonds, tally marks, droid fingers, light sabers, et cetera.

Looking forward to what your making here!