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 Possibly Stupid Question.....

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Fec Namron


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Possibly Stupid Question.....
« on: Sep 05, 2021, 07:20 PM »
I know the CRL says the "visor dark enough to obscure the wearer’s face." And that they "will be judged on a case by case basis".

Is there a generally acceptable VLT% (Visual Light Transmission) Tinting out there?  Obscuring the face is very subjective and I'd like to narrow down my options for a visor with lots of visibility while making the standards. Thanks.

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Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #1 on: Sep 12, 2021, 12:54 PM »
So... I'm guessing (because of all the crickets in the background) that this IS a stupid question.
That, or everybody is too cautious about offering opinions or giving advise.

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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #2 on: Sep 12, 2021, 04:20 PM »
I'm thinking it's the second option - but I'll give it a shot and see if I'm way off.
While totally unqualified to advise, I'm of the opinion that the lightest tint you can get to pass while meeting the subjective criteria of 'obscuring' is the best option for me - I like being able to see indoors as well as outdoors, and also in the evening hours. The usual dark green / black tint safety face shields many Mercs use feel really dark to me. I used a 38% VLT window tint on a clear face shield and was able to see well enough for H'ween at night, but still cuts glare and UV very well for daytime. I am not sure it passes MMCC criteria...in very bright lighting the very tip of my nose shows as a lighter spot, so I am also looking for a solution to use in an OM-level helmet. Maybe it would work to double up tint film for the lower T-slot and leave only one layer for the eyeslot? Or wear a balaclava to obscure the face further. 

Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #3 on: Sep 12, 2021, 05:52 PM »
I'm thinking it's the second option - but I'll give it a shot and see if I'm way off.
While totally unqualified to advise, I'm of the opinion that the lightest tint you can get to pass while meeting the subjective criteria of 'obscuring' is the best option for me - I like being able to see indoors as well as outdoors, and also in the evening hours. The usual dark green / black tint safety face shields many Mercs use feel really dark to me. I used a 38% VLT window tint on a clear face shield and was able to see well enough for H'ween at night, but still cuts glare and UV very well for daytime. I am not sure it passes MMCC criteria...in very bright lighting the very tip of my nose shows as a lighter spot, so I am also looking for a solution to use in an OM-level helmet. Maybe it would work to double up tint film for the lower T-slot and leave only one layer for the eyeslot? Or wear a balaclava to obscure the face further.

Second Son,
Thank You! This is the kind of honest input I was hoping for. I tried the 35% VLT (just a big enough piece for the T-slot w/o any shield) and thought I could see too much of my face. Did the same with 20% VLT and I get results like you describe. I wonder if camo face paint would be cooler than a balaclava?

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jethroskull


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #4 on: Sep 13, 2021, 07:23 PM »
I wonder if camo face paint would be cooler than a balaclava?

Possibly just the opposite. Camo face paints block your pores, sealing heat and perspiration in. Balaclavas come in a variety of materials and can help pull the heat from you.

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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #5 on: Sep 14, 2021, 12:25 PM »
Mesh fabric or window screen material is also an option to consider. I bought a motorcycle helmet lens for my Shoretrooper because I really wanted the bubble look (compound curve you can't really get out of a flat sheet without distortion), but it wasn't quite dark enough, so I put a layer of mesh behind it. It doesn't take away too much visibility from the inside, but it obscures your face from outside.

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Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #6 on: Sep 14, 2021, 08:13 PM »
Possibly just the opposite. Camo face paints block your pores, sealing heat and perspiration in. Balaclavas come in a variety of materials and can help pull the heat from you.

jethroskull,
I've worn camo paint most of my career and you are right (when you go old school and put on a lot, everywhere and thick.). I was actually thinking about some of the newer stuff, not as much and only where needed. I also was only thinking of balaclavas as the type to keep you warm. I wasn't including the sniper veil kind. Thanks.

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Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #7 on: Sep 14, 2021, 08:23 PM »
Mesh fabric or window screen material is also an option to consider. I bought a motorcycle helmet lens for my Shoretrooper because I really wanted the bubble look (compound curve you can't really get out of a flat sheet without distortion), but it wasn't quite dark enough, so I put a layer of mesh behind it. It doesn't take away too much visibility from the inside, but it obscures your face from outside.

NegativeEleven,
Is the mesh visible at all from the outside? Would there be a noticeable difference if extra mesh or tint was added to the area below eye level? Thanks

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jethroskull


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #8 on: Sep 15, 2021, 09:39 AM »
jethroskull,
I've worn camo paint most of my career and you are right (when you go old school and put on a lot, everywhere and thick.). I was actually thinking about some of the newer stuff, not as much and only where needed. I also was only thinking of balaclavas as the type to keep you warm. I wasn't including the sniper veil kind. Thanks.
Sorry, went into SERE/DEST Instructor mode…
I was referring to actual balaclavas, not a veil. Silk, Coolmax, even Merino will help pull the moisture and create a cooler atmosphere.

Have you checked with your Ruus team for an opinion? You may be worrying for nothing.

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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #9 on: Sep 15, 2021, 01:03 PM »
Behind a tinted visor, you won't notice mesh from the outside. In fact, in many of my other costumes, I have been replacing lenses with mesh because it won't fog up and looks the same in pictures. Kylo and the Knights of Ren have mesh in their helmets instead of lenses. Like I said, my shoretrooper helmet (still need to weather everything and work on fitting) looks fine from the outside with a lightly tinted lens and mesh on the inside.



I was at DragonCon 2 weeks ago, wearing white mesh with one side painted red inside the eyes of my Monarch Henchman mask and my 90's X-men Cyclops visor. It was so much easier on my eyes not seeing everything tinted red and not having to deal with fogged lenses.


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Avior Braisa


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #10 on: Sep 17, 2021, 12:24 AM »
Each of my helmets have used a welding shield for the visor. They do tend to fog up, but if you have good fans and/or ventilation it should work just fine.

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Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #11 on: Sep 19, 2021, 07:58 PM »
Sorry, went into SERE/DEST Instructor mode…
I was referring to actual balaclavas, not a veil. Silk, Coolmax, even Merino will help pull the moisture and create a cooler atmosphere.

Have you checked with your Ruus team for an opinion? You may be worrying for nothing.

Instructor mode appreciated! I grabbed a couple of the thin variety balaclava (one a "ninja weight", the other a thin microfiber) just to see if I like them. They will get used regardless of whether they are a part of the suit.  ;D  I haven't  contacted my Ruus team for any guidance yet, I thought this was a good option to start.

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Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #12 on: Sep 19, 2021, 08:00 PM »
Behind a tinted visor, you won't notice mesh from the outside. In fact, in many of my other costumes, I have been replacing lenses with mesh because it won't fog up and looks the same in pictures. Kylo and the Knights of Ren have mesh in their helmets instead of lenses. Like I said, my shoretrooper helmet (still need to weather everything and work on fitting) looks fine from the outside with a lightly tinted lens and mesh on the inside.



I was at DragonCon 2 weeks ago, wearing white mesh with one side painted red inside the eyes of my Monarch Henchman mask and my 90's X-men Cyclops visor. It was so much easier on my eyes not seeing everything tinted red and not having to deal with fogged lenses.



Sweet! This will go into my bag of tricks.

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Fec Namron


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #13 on: Sep 19, 2021, 08:01 PM »
Each of my helmets have used a welding shield for the visor. They do tend to fog up, but if you have good fans and/or ventilation it should work just fine.

Yup, fogging is another part of the equation I'm playing with.  :o

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Svik Katora


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Re: Possibly Stupid Question.....
« Reply #14 on: Sep 22, 2021, 04:48 AM »
Cheap grinding visors, make sure it has a shade tint of #3 or #4. The higher the number the darker the visor. Also consider where you are going to be trooping. At night, or inside, even slightly cloudy days won't put too much light through, but flash photography or direct bright sunlight might. If you live in the desert, you might want a #4. Don't get a #2. it's fine in some situations, but as soon as you step outside you're going to be able to see nose and eyes.

Also, Mirrored visors are great for visibility. They are comparatively less dark than the black tinted option, and the brighter the situation is, the more light it reflects. In bright daylight they are impossible to see into. Anywhere evenly and well lit they are flawless. But if you're doing some nighttime trooping and there are lots of floor lights or just lights at a low angle, you can occasionally have troubles, since light can illuminate your face from beneath without reflecting enough off the visor to cover it up. It's usually just your chin though, so if you have a balaclava on other people still really can't see much.

For reference, I've been trooping a mirrored visor for about 7 years and the circumstances for this have aligned exactly one time to make my chin visible, and it was only for a moment, before someone told me what was happening and I tilted my head so it wasn't catching the light at exactly the wrong angle. Moral of the story, don't forget your balaclava.

 


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