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[Talos Firelight]

Hey guys,

I asked this question earlier today in the late crusader forums.  Turns out that's likely the least visited forum on the boards, so I think I'll start with my question here.  I'm sure this one gets asked from time to time, and I do apologize for having it rehashed, but my search-fu isn't turning up much.

I want to build two sets of crusader gear.  Heavy armor, at that, lots of plates.  I'll likely have to build most of it from scratch.  Daunting, because the last time I ever tried to mold something, it was playdough and I was 10.

I know basically nothing about materials that work for this.  I've seen garbage bins used frequently for modern style armor, I've seen Sintra, I've seen cardboard + fiberglass... They all seem like solid choices, but I don't know much about them.

So for someone who is going to be building from scratch and will likely have to create my own templets, both for a male set and a female set, what are some good materials to use?  What makes them worth considering in my scenario?

Thanks guys!  Hope to have a reference pic to work with soon, very excited to get started.

[Swift]

I'm a tad biased, but I swear by PVC ^__^ It's light, easily heat formed, and if you get a big enough pipe you can make nearly any kind of plate you desire.

EDIT: Oh, and cheap. Very very much! Especially if you do as I do and buy them from your local garbage dump outlet

[Dar'manda]

Sintra, Trash can Plastic are all decent options, Sintra being Foam core PVC, sintra just being the brand name GE uses,

Sintra is good because it easy to mold adjust and do some work to, and its fairly ok on price, the issue with it is depending on the thickness
(which you usally dont want to go past 6mm because there is no canon photo that supports a thickness beyond that) it can be pretty fragile, and with some wear and tear they can break, but overall its a great option for many eras.

But I agree that PVC is amazing, even if you buy it whole sale at Lowe’s or Home Depot, it’s still pretty cheap, a 10 foot piece of 6in PVC runs around 30 bucks and you can make 2 or 3 sets from that,

My only suggestion is when you use PVC, is don’t buy solid core pvc, get foam Core, the reason for this is because solid core the more you heat it and shape it, the harder it tends to become itself, and while this may sound great, it make adjustments much harder then need be.

Foam core you can heat it and reshape it as many times as you want, it’s also a little lighter then the solid core, and cheaper.

It’s usually found as the unpressurized set, the stuff for drain and the like. It should say it across the face of the pipe.

I hope this helps.

[Straka Zulu]

Also Tote bin plastic, I've been told.  Cheap, cuts easy and supposed to be easy to form.

My question, if I don't use my oven to heat the stuff, what's the best way to heat and form the plastic.   Don't feel like it's a good idea to have plastic fumes in the place I cook my food. 

[Towhan Svel]

A lot of people use heat guns.

[Straka Zulu]

OK, got one of those.  Just need tips on the best way to form it to my needs.

[Towhan Svel]

I do know how to do it in theory, but I'll leave it for someone with actual experience to answer...

[dcubed121]

Another option if you are decent at graphic design is to make a 3D model. Print it in pepakura and fiberglass that.

[Coreysnaps]

If you want to use a heat gun, make sure you wear gloves that will stand up to the temps of the heat gun or you're going to have toasty fingers, and you can shape them right to your body (as long as you're wearing clothes).  That's what I did with my Sintra pieces, and I've done it with my husband's tote pieces, also.

[Straka Zulu]

Vor'e, to you all.

[Talos Firelight]

If you want to use a heat gun, make sure you wear gloves that will stand up to the temps of the heat gun or you're going to have toasty fingers, and you can shape them right to your body (as long as you're wearing clothes).  That's what I did with my Sintra pieces, and I've done it with my husband's tote pieces, also.

Best news I've heard all day.  How moldable are these materials, then?  Say I want some of the lines to be sharper do I have to take two pieces and glue them together to create that sharper crease?

[Swift]

Best news I've heard all day.  How moldable are these materials, then?  Say I want some of the lines to be sharper do I have to take two pieces and glue them together to create that sharper crease?

That would be the easiest option, yes. Another method would be to grip the piece in a vice (along the line you want to sharpen) then heat it up and flatten it.

[Nickel]

I am using 22 gauge steel for my armor.  It is produces some fantastic results, but it isn't as easy to work with as the various plastics people have mentioned.  If you're willing to take the time to learn how to do it, I think its worth it.

[Talos Firelight]

You know I've been thinking about trying metal... Might be too heavy for the fiancee, though. And I might start with plastic to begin with, and upgrade to metal. I love the way metal weathers.

[ravonos]

My advice, don't use trash can or tote bin plastic, it's terrible to work with. I'm using ABS sewer pipe for my build and it worked like a charm. It's similar to PVC, as in easy to work with. All I used was a 4" pipe, put templates on it and cut it with a jigsaw. I bought a plastic tote to use and started cutting on the lid and hated working with it immediately. Just my 2 cents.
-ravonos

[Talos Firelight]

I just spent the past... I'd say 2 hours reading through WIP threads for PVC kits and I gotta say, that seems to be the way to go.  Super durable, easy to work with as long as you're patient, and lightweight.

Still hoping to do metal one day... but I need something that gets me in until I reach that level of comfort.

I appreciate all the advice!  Once again, you guys never disappoint.  Super excited to get started on this project!

[dcubed121]

That's a good plan. I think the endless reading is something we all go through before we get started.

[Pointoforigin]

Endless reading is doing it right, research is the bit before measure twice cut once. I hereby coin a new phrase - research thrice, measure twice, cut once.

PVC seems like the best choice to me, ease of use, durability, takes paint well, is pretty durn cheap. It's great to be able to say that you've got metal plates but personally, unless you've got epic skillz like Mandalore does, it's not QUITE worth it. My first kit was metal.

And it doesn't have to strictly be PVC - ravonos you're quite correct about ABS sewer pipe, that will work very much the same way as PVC and be at a similar price point. My V3 kit is going to be PVA which is just one letter off

The one thing that I really like about PVC vs say Sintra is that it compresses and expands when you heat it rather than just bending, so compound curves are much easier to make. (A compound curve is a curve that goes both horizontal and vertical - best example is looking at RKD's Jango thigh plates vs flat metal thigh plates that have just been curved one way)

[Svik Katora]

I have a good suggestion, if you use metal, roofing aluminum, most hardware and warehouses have it, not to pricey, much easier to bend/mold than steel and is much lighter.

If you go with plastic then by all means pvc, there really is not a competition, especially if you are making two sets. buy in quantity so you can build with quality.

But don't just take my word for it. And remember the two most important words in costuming, research and practice.

P.S. if you want sharp bends with either material, use a vice or a table edge. With pvc you just heat up and bend using the edge or vice(careful using the vice or you may end up with a grid printed into your piece.)

[Talos Firelight]

Hmm.  That does sort of beg the question: which of the two would be the easier to work with?  I'm really intrigued by the metal design, but it's a lot more intimidating than PVC.  I should see if I can find some guides on metalworking...

[Pointoforigin]

Roofing aluminium won't cut it. It's flimsy enough that random knocks while wearing it will bend it out of shape. Not a desirable outcome.

[Svik Katora]

Roofing aluminium won't cut it. It's flimsy enough that random knocks while wearing it will bend it out of shape. Not a desirable outcome.

Really?, I Haven't used it in a costume but I did meet a few who had, and they spoke highly of it. At any rate though, I still think aluminum is a good bet for armor, its much lighter and won't rust.

[Pointoforigin]

Yeah, really. Yup, thicker aluminium is great.

[Echo Darklighter]

Yeah, really. Yup, thicker aluminium is great.

Steel shapes more cleanly and gives a sturdier outcome, provided you have the materials to work it.  Try using a 55-gallon drum (usually 16 ga steel) to cut out of, and a decent-weight (16 or 24 oz) ball peen hammer to shape it.  The results will be outstanding, provided you have the patience and skill.

[Svik Katora]

Steel shapes more cleanly and gives a sturdier outcome, provided you have the materials to work it.  Try using a 55-gallon drum (usually 16 ga steel) to cut out of, and a decent-weight (16 or 24 oz) ball peen hammer to shape it.  The results will be outstanding, provided you have the patience and skill.

I think in this case however the people who are asking probably (my apologies if I'm wrong) don't have any real expirience metalworking, which is why he is asking about it. But you are right, if you have skill tools and time, steel is a prety good bet, just a bit of upkeep if it rusts.