Mandalorian Armor => Armor Concepts => Topic started by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 26, 2021, 11:25 PM
Title: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 26, 2021, 11:25 PM
Su cuy'gar! This is the thread where I plan my build, practice painting and weathering swatches, draft cardboard mockups, and spam a whole mess of reference screenshots. I hope my process is useful, especially for lore-driven Post-Imperial mandos!
For those with Post-Imperial builds, this post (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=200446.msg2284414#msg2284414) and this post (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=200446.msg2284858#msg2284858) may be particularly interesting to you.
As of 2/23/22, this is where my kit stands:
(https://i.imgur.com/wMI4MA4.png)
Arco is a Post-Imperial narglatch breeder and a Child of the Watch, with custom beskar plates and generic Tribe durasteel plates. Armor inspirations are post-mudhorn / pre-beskar Din Djarin and an unnamed mando from the Tribe. Soft parts inspirations are Post-Imperial mandalorians, Fennec Shand, and Altaïr from Assassin's Creed. My endgame after OM approval will be a hunter / tech aesthetic with furs and LEDs, aiming for Beast Tamer and Light Melee brigades.
Below is my original post. Enjoy!
Hello everyone! My name is Arco and I have so, so many questions. I enjoy being consistent with canon and would be happy to incorporate elements from the EU, but I’m new to the series and would love the input of folks who have delved deeper into the lore than I have just yet.
I’m set on the post-imperial era. Here is my first draft, including paint swatches for the chrome armor:
(https://i.imgur.com/BttgPAS.png)
NOTES
PLEASE NOTE, that is not a loincloth in the image – it’s the sash draping down! It will be more obvious in real life than on Mandocreator. In addition, the flak vest and kama are made of the same materials, but are different pieces.
The chest plate design will be tricky. I love V2 Din’s angular design, but that likely won’t fit my body type, so I’ll have to customize it. I will probably go for a design that combines elements of Bo-Katan, Din, and/or Paz.
Considering the similarities to Din (same helmet design, dark brown soft parts, chest plate derivative, chrome coloration, very possibly an Amban rifle) I will likely add bold symbols and designs to the soft parts to make things more differentiable to a general audience.
I will almost certainly add a Mythosaur design to one of the soft parts and the Clan Yustapir sigil to the armor (after OM approval, of course!).
So, this is my starting off point! However, I have many questions to guide me forward:
LORE QUESTIONS
1. Naming conventions – Other than not using the letters f, x, or z, I’m not sure of any naming conventions in Mando’a. Is there any rhyme or reason to where the apostrophes go in names? Also, is your last name your clan name? My current choices have narrowed to Arco’thyel Wyshla or Arco’thyel Whysha, but if our clan name is our last name, I suppose it’ll be Arco’thyel Yustapir. Do you guys have any thoughts?
2. Canon/EU colors and symbols – I’ve found the list of color meanings, but am trying to find a list of common symbol meanings. I know of group identifiers (Journeyman Protector, Nite Owls, Death Watch, etc), but I’m particularly interested in symbols that have specific meanings, like the Jaig eyes or kill stripes. Are there any others with Mandalorian-specific meanings? What about the triangle on Din’s hand / various helmets?
3. Alphanumeric display – I’m interested in putting Boba’s alphanumeric display on my chest plate, but I have no idea what it’s used for! I like the aesthetic, but I don’t want to use it if I don’t know what it does. Does it have a functional purpose?
KEY CRL CONCERNS
4. Kama – Is it OK to have it split in the back like a tailcoat? How about having it split both in the back and on the sides?
5. Legacy shoulders – Is this acceptable for a post-imperial build? I hope so, because I have a lot of similarities with Din, and these shoulders are great to break up his silhouette. The CRL says that double plates are acceptable but does not mention triple plates – I assume it’s ok because it’s an extension of double plates, but I’d like to check.
6. Visor shape – Are the straight / slanted visor designs gender-specific, or can we pick whichever we like?
7. Weathering the chrome beskar – The CRL of consistent weathering is a big concern for me. I like tattered soft parts, however, my armor will be chrome and I imagine it to be made of beskar, so it won’t have scratches or dents. I’m hesitant to go hard on the blackwash because that will dull the chrome. I may paint symbols on it so I can have chips and scratches in the paint job, but I imagine most of the armor will be plain aside from the chrome gold. Which leads me to….
8. Gold chrome – What can the gold chrome accents be made of? Is there gold beskar? Do Mandalorians use chrome paint? If the accents are paint or a different metal, that gives more weathering options. Either way, I hope it’s OK for me to have tattered soft parts and comparatively unscathed beskar.
9. Flak vest – Can these be sleeveless with the shoulder armors attached to the flight suit, or is it required to have that arm flap?
10. Brigades – After the build is complete and accepted for OM status, I’d like to work on upgrades to join the brigades. However, I cannot see the BRLs for the brigades until I am an OM, so I am quite worried I may design my character wrong and have to redo parts of it! Are there any colors or design choices I should keep in mind for the Beast Tamers? How about the Light Melees?
Those are my questions for now (with a million more well on the way, I’m sure!). I’ll keep updating this thread as I plan out specifics of the build. Please don’t hesitate to offer suggestions!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Jare talon on Feb 27, 2021, 11:08 AM
This doesn't have the meaning for the symbols but, it does have a list of symbols and says whether the symbol is approvable or not. https://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=199779.0 (https://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=199779.0)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 27, 2021, 11:09 PM
Hey, thanks for the list! I went through and tried to narrow down Mandalorian-specific ones, and posted what I found in that thread.
Four symbols in particular caught my attention:
Black Bha'lir (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Bha%27lir): Though not Mandalorian, the idea of smugglers with a strict code of ethics is very cool to me. Also, cats are the greatest, so the emblem has that going for it, too. The backstory of the organization is pretty neat and may be fun to incorporate. However, I don't imagine that symbol will be very fun to paint!
Clan Eldar (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clan_Eldar): Considering my stance of “cats are the greatest”, their signet is rad! Though my color scheme is not black, dark green, and orange, and the name “Arco’thyel Eldar” doesn't exactly roll off the tongue with the double 'el'. So, I probably won’t go with it. But dang, do I love that signet…
True Mandalorians (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/True_Mandalorians): I thought that this was a brigades-only symbol, it’s cool to see that it’s allowed on customs! I’m a big fan of their ideals of honor and the Supercommando Codex versus the status-quo of barbarism. There’s lots of info here, looks like I should read some comics…
Sabine Wren's Starbird (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Starbird_(symbol)): It’s pretty cool that a Mandalorian’s symbol ended up evolving into the Rebel Alliances’ crest! I never made that connection when watching Rebels.
None of the symbols on the list were the triangle motif that’s used on Mando helmets / Din’s hand. Seems it's still a mystery! :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Aratris on Feb 28, 2021, 11:52 PM
I'll try to answer the questions I feel knowledgeable enough to answer.
4. Perfectly ok, that's how most of the Kamas I've seen do it. 5. Its pretty safe to assume, quite a few armor pieces are acceptable to be switched between the eras, just not the chestplate. 6. You can have any visor design you want, nothing gender specific, as long as it falls within the CRLs. 10. Normally you want to go for base approvability and then go to brigades, but if you want to go beastmaster and light melee you wont need to change much. With light melee it's basically just don't add bulky stuff, like antennas, (RF's are fine) and add extra armor and weapons after approval. For BM you need natural looking soft goods, and just some accessories. So nothing you need to plan for until your approved.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Mar 01, 2021, 01:01 AM
I'll do my best to help out. It's good to have questions! Don't shy away from asking!
1. No. You definitely do not have to have your clan name be your last name. In fact, you don't even have to have a last name. There are also definitely grammatical rules to apostrophes and things like that, but don't get too hung up on all this stuff. No one will criticize you for an out of place apostrophe. :laugh:
2. As far as logos and stuff go, certain crests have certain associations. Fett's for example. Fenn Shysa also has a specific Crest on his chest plate as noted in the Marvel comics. But as for its meaning, I'm not certain. A lot of us Legends/Canon guys really like seeing pre-pro stuff like the painted "ears" on our Protector builds.
As for the triangle, I think it's just a triangle. At least I've not seen any specific meanings. Different eras used different symbols, with the early crusader/crusader Era using a symbol that looked a lot like the Mandalorian predecessors, the Taung.
3. The best I can tell you is it's a life support readout. That's the general consensus.
4. Should be okay. Just work with your local Ruus'alor to me sure.
5. Yes. Legacy shoulders are fine.
6. As long as the visor meets the 2/3 ruling, you should be fine.
7. This will be a bit trickier. You want the weathering levels to be the same on your armor as on your soft goods. You'll want to really settle some grime in the areas where you have recesses or low spots. Lightly weathered soft goods would allow for lightly weathered armor. Keep your local Ruus'alor in the loop for tips and advice!
8. I don't think it matters what it would be made of, as long as you keep it in-universe looking, you should be fine. I really do like the amount of thought you're putting into this build though. However, as mentioned in 7, you're going to need to keep everything consistent.
9. Sleeveless is just fine!
10. Beast tamer/master will require specific damage and heavy weathering to your armor:
Quote
Weathering - must be heavily weathered and should include scratch and bite marks that are consistent with operating in the natural world and consistent with frequent animal encounters and attacks.
Beast Hunter requires natural colors to blend into the environment but Beast Tamer does not. Not sure if this will cause you to rethink your plans for brigades. But one way to see brigades is to look into an auxiliary membership. You'll get access to those boards then.
For light melee you'll need to stay in the light to medium category of armor with no bulky parts or protrusions. No specific weathering or colors are listed.
These are all really good questions and I hope you'll continue to ask as they come up.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 03, 2021, 12:20 AM
Thank you both for the info! I haven’t heard anything from my clan yet, so it’s very exciting to have a Ruus’alor’s input, too. This is all very useful. I spent some time reading about logos and apostrophes. :laugh:
The weathering will be tough, but I suppose I’ll cross that bridge when I get there! I’ve taken a liking to a beast tamer backstory, so it stinks to see it requires heavy weathering. The soft parts will be fun, with bite and claw rips that have been handsewn shut. The armor though, phew! When I get paint and sintra, I’ll have to make some samples and see what kind of grime effects I can get going.
I’ve been looking into crafting methods, and since I’m going for a low-budget build, it’ll be best for me to make my own items when I can.
As far as armor goes, I plan on using sintra for most of it, perhaps 3D printing the helmet and gauntlets. My brother has been talking about getting a 3D printer, so maybe that’ll work out. Quite intimidating to worry about failed prints, though!
I’ll be working on the soft parts and/or the helmet first. I found these scrubs (https://www.scrubsandbeyond.com/cherokee-workwear-unisex-v-neck-scrub-tops.html) in chocolate that should work for a flight suit, but two pants and a shirt will be $45 :-X. I’m wondering if it would be cheaper to make them from scratch, but I have no sewing experience, so it may be best to just get the scrubs to keep myself from getting overwhelmed – that’s a genuine concern since this is all new to me and I have “either-make-it-perfect-or-give-up” tendencies.
I’m itching to go browse potential options at Joann’s and thrift stores! But I need to be careful of COVID, so no window shopping for me. Let's see what digital swatches I can find on their website...
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Mar 03, 2021, 02:37 AM
My first kit was a budget build. $45 isn't outrageous for your flightsuit. I bought Red Kap Coveralls and think I spent $35. Then I had another $90 in the vest. Since I'm not great with sewing, those were worth the purchase for me. I think I had around $300-$350 in my first kit. So I'm all about doing it yourself!
I scratch built everything else including gauntlets and my helmet, but ended up buying a Rubie's Fett Helmet (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BLTAGQG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_1KC1S8DMKVBWKEC6T0XF) and modifying it for under $45 dollars. Unfortunately, it's been sold out for months now.
3D printing can be intimidating but some friends of mine break the print down into smaller sections to eliminate last minute fails. But I don't have a printer, so I'm not much help there. If you don't get feedback from your clan, you're always welcome to reach out to me on here and I'll do my best to help.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Matchstick1021 on Mar 03, 2021, 12:56 PM
Don’t be too worried about failed prints, it comes with the territory. Print a few small things at first to get your settings dialed in and that should work out most of the issues. However you’ll still have mishaps, I’ve been printing things for over 6 years and stuff just sometimes happens.
Helmets and gauntlets are some great things to print.
Like Kurshi said, keep reaching out!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 03, 2021, 06:42 PM
Thank you for the reassurances! Looks like I’ll need to reevaluate my mindset on the budget. I’m the type of person who balks at anything over $5, so it’s a struggle. :laugh:
Good to hear about the prints! I’ve read horror stories of faulty nozzles, warped print beds, etc, but successful prints are fantastic. Just gotta remind myself that if I run into a problem, there’s probably someone who knows how to solve it.
Been thinking about weapons… thought I’d check my local cons’ weapons policies alongside MMCC's before I start planning what to make. For my local comicon, prop guns cannot be mistaken for contemporary real-world guns, and they must be rendered inoperable, along with a solid orange cap on the barrel. My local anime con, however, has more rules on top of these:
No strobe lights (Nooo, my vibroblade! At least I can program a solid light mode into it).
No airsoft, paintball, or other firearms, even if modified with bright colors and no moving parts.
Nerf guns are acceptable if they are modified with bright colors and no moving parts.
The orange plug on prop guns must be at least 6mm long and cover the entire circumference of the barrel (This is rather confusing for something like the Amban rifle!).
And finally, for all prop guns…
“50% of the exterior surface area of your prop must be a bright, noticeable color such as: bright red, bright blue, pink, neon green, orange, yellow, bright purple, or a combination thereof. The majority of your prop must NOT be black, brown, silver, or another dark color, though these colors may be a part of your prop’s color scheme.”
I, uh. Don’t know what to do about that one. :laugh: I’ve really grown fond of a sandy/earthy color palate for this build, so I’m not sure if having the rifle be 50% neon is the way to go! I may email them and ask if gold / copper / rose gold etc. would count as a “bright, noticeable color”.
Alternatively, perhaps I could bypass the color restriction altogether if the trigger and the scope were removable so I can alter it to be a stun baton when I go to that con. That fits in-universe iirc – isn’t the Amban rifle illegal? “Oh, it was an Amban rifle, but the New Republic had me remove its disintegration capabilities...” :D
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Mar 03, 2021, 07:23 PM
At that point, there’s no way to carry an MMCC-approved blaster. Your local con basically wants to make sure any guns look like toys, and the CRLs are designed to make sure any blasters don’t look like toys. You are better off just carrying a melee weapon.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 04, 2021, 03:07 AM
Realistically, I know it’s more practical to make the Amban rifle convertible to a stun baton. On the other hand, my mind is kind of smitten by the challenge of painting it to satisfy both rulesets! I wonder if they’d allow candy chrome metal parts with weathering and blackwash… if the security team is the same people I’ve spoken with before, they may appreciate that kind of creativity.
Though that does bring up the question, is it OK by MMCC’s standards to go to a con with orange barrel tips and con security’s ziptie tags on your weapons? Or does that break the illusion too much? For this con, I know they will ziptie any weapon, including melee weapons.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Mar 04, 2021, 04:53 AM
At that point, there’s no way to carry an MMCC-approved blaster. Your local con basically wants to make sure any guns look like toys, and the CRLs are designed to make sure any blasters don’t look like toys. You are better off just carrying a melee weapon.
I think this is the best advice. I've had my carbine kicked back at a few events because it looks real. I use a paintball gun base with all metal parts. I don't have an orange tip on it because I don't want to break the realistic look.
Most cons will check your weapon and give you a ziptie or tie a ribbon around it. This is entire acceptable and we encourage our members to follow the safety and check in procedures, complying with the event requests. The last thing we want is someone getting in trouble, or worse hurt, by trying to bypass a weapons check!
However, it's entirely possible to use something like a Westar 35 for the con. If you make a holster for one, the blasters are easy enough to make/purchase that you can have one for that event and one for others. A great option would be to use a 3D printed pistol of some sort for this con, one that's easy to have a second one replicated in the bright colors. That or just go weapons free for the event. Also, entire acceptable. The MMCC will never make you have a weapon for an event if there might be complications. :)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Sylvilagus on Mar 04, 2021, 10:48 AM
...Neon colored gaff tape wrapped around the gun, that can be removed later?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Mar 04, 2021, 11:30 AM
...Neon colored gaff tape wrapped around the gun, that can be removed later?
Interesting idea! I guess that just comes down to the con's rules. But that might work!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 04, 2021, 12:52 PM
The gaff tape is actually what the con does! They have it at their security table and will help folks apply it if their firearm doesn't meet the orange tip / 50% rule. It's a nice gesture, but I think I would opt to cover it then bring it back to my room and go with just melee weapons -- it's more fun to have a consistent costume when you can.
I looked more into it and turns out white counts as a "bright, noticeable color", so there could be room for creativity to make an approvable color scheme! I may reach out to the team and ask about weathering a candy chrome / gold / rose gold, etc. If not, then the stun baton conversion will be a nice compromise I think!
Also, it just occurred to me: I've taken a liking to the idea of having a thousand throwing knives. But each of those throwing knives will need to be tagged by security. I better bring them cupcakes or something for having to deal with my nonsense. :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Mar 04, 2021, 05:03 PM
Also, it just occurred to me: I've taken a liking to the idea of having a thousand throwing knives. But each of those throwing knives will need to be tagged by security. I better bring them cupcakes or something for having to deal with my nonsense. :laugh:
That's their job. Make 'em earn it, that's what I say!
We’re Mandalorians. Weapons are part of our religion.
Yeah, we demand a religious exemption from the venue's reasonable safety concerns! :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Emrys Mar on Mar 06, 2021, 12:17 AM
I would recommend contacting the con-com for that particular convention and see if you can get some clarification on the rule. It is possible that it is an ether/or rule, rather than both. (IE: it just needs one those options, the orange tip OR the coloring.) Even if they confirm that it does need to be both, it puts you on better terms with the people in charge. And thus, more likely to work with you on things, rather than fight you on everything.
Another option, NERF blasters. Specifically the Zombie Strike line. They fit the color and tip criteria, and still look like they could fit in the Star Wars universe (for the most part). You would just need to remove the logos. But it would be more acceptable with the convention. Though I know they are not allowed as part of your regular kit.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 10, 2021, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the suggestions! I sent the security team an inquiry to see what they think, it'll be interesting to have their input.
I’ve been writing up some notes for my build! Here’s some thoughts and some questions:
BACKSTORY:
All I know for sure is that Arco primarily works in a deciduous forest / grassland biome (that’s so this Kansan can get nice pictures!), and is very likely a Narglatch (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Narglatch) breeder! She tamed different subspecies of Narglatch to train as mounts, guards, and pets. Being such a big fan of felines, I wouldn’t be surprised if she breeds luxury Tookas and Loth cats on the side.
Is Arco a foundling? With such a long name that deviates from the structure of other Mandos, maybe so!
Is Arco a Child of the Watch? I’d like to think so, since they are the ones who got me interested in Mandalorian culture. On the other hand, I overheat easily, so I’d like to take my helmet off… So maybe not!
SOFT PARTS:
Flight suit: Possibly these scrubs in chocolate (https://www.scrubsandbeyond.com/cherokee-workwear-unisex-v-neck-scrub-tops.html). Do I want to have decorative topstitching like Din?
Flak vest: Something like this duck cloth in natural (https://www.joann.com/jo-ann-stores-duck-canvas-fabric/2136349.html). Gotta check and make sure it’s not coated with something waterproof -- I'll want it to be very breathable.
Waist items:
Sash: I want this to be tattered, so it will be a more delicate fabric. I like the texture of this hopsack linen (https://www.joann.com/sew-classics-linen-black-hopsack/10496115.html).
Belt: No concrete plans. Faux leather or sturdy fabric. Has pouches and holds throwing knives.
Bandolier: No concrete plans, will be used if the Amban rifle is made. Faux leather or sturdy fabric. Holds Amban rounds and throwing knives.
Kama: Same material as flak vest. It’s sturdier than the sash so it’s less tattered, but will probably have some handsewn rips. Will likely have a Mythosaur symbol.
Boots: No concrete plans. Faux leather from the thrift store. Holds throwing knives.
Gloves: No concrete plans. From the thrift store. Will have hand plates.
Upper arm: Faux leather or sturdy fabric. Holds throwing knives.
Cape: Din-style pleats in the neck, but perhaps a half-circle pattern for extra swoosh. Materials are tough! I’m looking at upholstery fabrics for now… As far as decorations go, do I want the Mythosaur on it? Do I want a fur/spike mane along the upper half like a Narglatch pelt?
ARMOR:
Will need to be light-medium to allow for the option of the Light Melee brigade in the future. This is a bit tricky to determine given how the armor classes guide is written for modern rather than post-imperial CRLs, so I’ll have to run it by them when I get a better idea of my plans. Right now it seems I’m going for CRL minimum as far as post-imperial goes. It’s worth noting that a likely option for my chest plate is an edit of Paz’s heavy plate.
Helmet: Will be 3D-printed, likely Din Djarin style. May remove the mohawk if possible. Can I add holes or slots for ventilation?
Chest plate: Will likely be made of sintra due to sizing concerns. Due to my unforgiving body type, I’ll have to custom-make a design – this will require lots of research, references, and cardboard mockups! It will either be heavily based on Bo-Katan’s, or it will be a cross between Din’s and Paz’s.
Shoulders: Made of sintra, with trauma plates, and a Narglatch signet on the right shoulder. I’ll have to consider the construction of the signet. I may put the Yustapir Clan sigil on the other shoulder, but the clan doesn’t seem very active?
Backplate: Sintra. Will likely be based on Din’s design, because that’s the only one we have references for! It may have Sabine’s Starbird in an orange/white gradient.
Hand plates: Sintra. One hand plate has Sabine’s Starbird on it in ombre orange/white. The other either has the True Mandalorians symbol, the Mythosaur, or will be left blank for the Beast Tamer symbol in the future.
Thigh plates / shin plates: Made of sintra, with trauma plates.
Gauntlets: This is the design I’m most confused about. It’ll likely be 3D printed, but I am open to sintra. I had a fun idea for a Beast Tamer: A bite gauntlet!! I’m thinking one gauntlet could be plain for defense, and the other can have a grapple and a flamethrower, which could come in handy for this occupation -- I'll need to find references for those. The bite gauntlet will be large and take up most of the forearm.
Attachment methods: Right now, I’m planning on Velcro for the armor. I may have to do something different for the gauntlets, which will be tricky, since I don’t have drills or anything for hinges.
Balaclava: I’m thinking of having an armored balaclava like I saw in the animated shows (Can’t recall who I saw it on!).
WEAPONS:
Throwing Knives: I want a million of these. On my belt. On my boots. On my upper arm. Under my helmet. I take off the helmet to reveal my face, and I’m just all knives under there. They’ll probably be made of sintra, but I’ll need to look into the design – let’s see if I can find screenshots of Xi’an’s knives. I’ll need to keep holster designs in mind, too.
Amban Rifle: I prefer melee weapons, but it’s a good idea for a Mandalorian to have a ranged option, wouldn’t you say? I love what this rifle does to your silhouette, and the stun baton would be very useful for a Beast Tamer!
Vibroblade?: Could be a sword or a knife, depending on what is convenient to carry. I plan on using an Arduino to program alternately strobing lights on the edge of the blade to simulate vibration.
Electro-whip?: I liked this idea because I love glowy things and it fits the Beast Tamer backstory, but I believe this is just a shaft that’s ignited like a lightsaber, which is not very exciting to have on your belt. I’ll have to watch TCW again to check.
Tranquilizer darts?: Another thing that could be great for a Beast Tamer! I’ll need to research swarzy options, I’ll grab some screenshots of what Kuiil used.
QUESTIONS:
1. Should I know anything about thrift store shopping? Primarily, if boots aren’t the right color, can faux leather be dyed?
2. Which arm should have which gauntlet? I’m left-handed, so I was thinking my dominant arm would have the weapons and the non-dominant hand would have the bite gauntlet, but should it be the other way around?
3. Speaking of bite gauntlets, any ideas on how I should do that? The ones for dogs I see on google are fabric. Can I have an armored gauntlet with a fabric outside, or is it not allowed to be covered?
4. Can the thigh plates be overlapping in layers like the legacy shoulders?
5. For ventilation on the gauntlets or helmet, can I cut small details out, and back it with a metal mesh?
6. For a Din helmet, will glasses be an issue when putting it on? (Yeah, this one worries me quite a bit!).
7. How do you make a 3D signet like Din’s? Is there a type of clay that could work?
8. For the scrubs, if the Beast Tamer BRLs require natural fabric, does this qualify? It’s 65% polyester/ 35% cotton, and the texture looks rather plain. Compared to the other fabrics I’m looking at, I’m worried it actually looks plain and costume-ish.
9. For the scrubs, I know we’re supposed to remove certain pockets – but what kind of pocket options do we have? How do you store your phone/keys/wallet?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Mar 11, 2021, 12:08 AM
Great plans and great questions. I'm going to try to go through those one by one for you when I get a moment! :)
Not tonight though. I'm too tired to give good replies. :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arminius on Mar 11, 2021, 12:17 AM
Thanks for the suggestions! I sent the security team an inquiry to see what they think, it'll be interesting to have their input.
I’ve been writing up some notes for my build! Here’s some thoughts and some questions:
BACKSTORY:
All I know for sure is that Arco primarily works in a deciduous forest / grassland biome (that’s so this Kansan can get nice pictures!), and is very likely a Narglatch (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Narglatch) breeder! She tamed different subspecies of Narglatch to train as mounts, guards, and pets. Being such a big fan of felines, I wouldn’t be surprised if she breeds luxury Tookas and Loth cats on the side.
Is Arco a foundling? With such a long name that deviates from the structure of other Mandos, maybe so!
Is Arco a Child of the Watch? I’d like to think so, since they are the ones who got me interested in Mandalorian culture. On the other hand, I overheat easily, so I’d like to take my helmet off… So maybe not!
SOFT PARTS:
Flight suit: Possibly these scrubs in chocolate (https://www.scrubsandbeyond.com/cherokee-workwear-unisex-v-neck-scrub-tops.html). Do I want to have decorative topstitching like Din?
Flak vest: Something like this duck cloth in natural (https://www.joann.com/jo-ann-stores-duck-canvas-fabric/2136349.html). Gotta check and make sure it’s not coated with something waterproof -- I'll want it to be very breathable.
Waist items:
Sash: I want this to be tattered, so it will be a more delicate fabric. I like the texture of this hopsack linen (https://www.joann.com/sew-classics-linen-black-hopsack/10496115.html).
Belt: No concrete plans. Faux leather or sturdy fabric. Has pouches and holds throwing knives.
Bandolier: No concrete plans, will be used if the Amban rifle is made. Faux leather or sturdy fabric. Holds Amban rounds and throwing knives.
Kama: Same material as flak vest. It’s sturdier than the sash so it’s less tattered, but will probably have some handsewn rips. Will likely have a Mythosaur symbol.
Boots: No concrete plans. Faux leather from the thrift store. Holds throwing knives.
Gloves: No concrete plans. From the thrift store. Will have hand plates.
Upper arm: Faux leather or sturdy fabric. Holds throwing knives.
Cape: Din-style pleats in the neck, but perhaps a half-circle pattern for extra swoosh. Materials are tough! I’m looking at upholstery fabrics for now… As far as decorations go, do I want the Mythosaur on it? Do I want a fur/spike mane along the upper half like a Narglatch pelt?
ARMOR:
Will need to be light-medium to allow for the option of the Light Melee brigade in the future. This is a bit tricky to determine given how the armor classes guide is written for modern rather than post-imperial CRLs, so I’ll have to run it by them when I get a better idea of my plans. Right now it seems I’m going for CRL minimum as far as post-imperial goes. It’s worth noting that a likely option for my chest plate is an edit of Paz’s heavy plate.
Helmet: Will be 3D-printed, likely Din Djarin style. May remove the mohawk if possible. Can I add holes or slots for ventilation?
Chest plate: Will likely be made of sintra due to sizing concerns. Due to my unforgiving body type, I’ll have to custom-make a design – this will require lots of research, references, and cardboard mockups! It will either be heavily based on Bo-Katan’s, or it will be a cross between Din’s and Paz’s.
Shoulders: Made of sintra, with trauma plates, and a Narglatch signet on the right shoulder. I’ll have to consider the construction of the signet. I may put the Yustapir Clan sigil on the other shoulder, but the clan doesn’t seem very active?
Backplate: Sintra. Will likely be based on Din’s design, because that’s the only one we have references for! It may have Sabine’s Starbird in an orange/white gradient.
Hand plates: Sintra. One hand plate has Sabine’s Starbird on it in ombre orange/white. The other either has the True Mandalorians symbol, the Mythosaur, or will be left blank for the Beast Tamer symbol in the future.
Thigh plates / shin plates: Made of sintra, with trauma plates.
Gauntlets: This is the design I’m most confused about. It’ll likely be 3D printed, but I am open to sintra. I had a fun idea for a Beast Tamer: A bite gauntlet!! I’m thinking one gauntlet could be plain for defense, and the other can have a grapple and a flamethrower, which could come in handy for this occupation -- I'll need to find references for those. The bite gauntlet will be large and take up most of the forearm.
Attachment methods: Right now, I’m planning on Velcro for the armor. I may have to do something different for the gauntlets, which will be tricky, since I don’t have drills or anything for hinges.
Balaclava: I’m thinking of having an armored balaclava like I saw in the animated shows (Can’t recall who I saw it on!).
WEAPONS:
Throwing Knives: I want a million of these. On my belt. On my boots. On my upper arm. Under my helmet. I take off the helmet to reveal my face, and I’m just all knives under there. They’ll probably be made of sintra, but I’ll need to look into the design – let’s see if I can find screenshots of Xi’an’s knives. I’ll need to keep holster designs in mind, too.
Amban Rifle: I prefer melee weapons, but it’s a good idea for a Mandalorian to have a ranged option, wouldn’t you say? I love what this rifle does to your silhouette, and the stun baton would be very useful for a Beast Tamer!
Vibroblade?: Could be a sword or a knife, depending on what is convenient to carry. I plan on using an Arduino to program alternately strobing lights on the edge of the blade to simulate vibration.
Electro-whip?: I liked this idea because I love glowy things and it fits the Beast Tamer backstory, but I believe this is just a shaft that’s ignited like a lightsaber, which is not very exciting to have on your belt. I’ll have to watch TCW again to check.
Tranquilizer darts?: Another thing that could be great for a Beast Tamer! I’ll need to research swarzy options, I’ll grab some screenshots of what Kuiil used.
QUESTIONS:
1. Should I know anything about thrift store shopping? Primarily, if boots aren’t the right color, can faux leather be dyed?
2. Which arm should have which gauntlet? I’m left-handed, so I was thinking my dominant arm would have the weapons and the non-dominant hand would have the bite gauntlet, but should it be the other way around?
1. Thrift stores can be a very good place to find things for your kit. I found my gloves at a local market.
2. I'm right-handed and decided that I would have my gauntlets be fairly simple, meaning no more than three accesories per gauntlet. In the left one which would be my "tech gauntlet" I would put a grapple hook, control panel and a small screen. In my "weapons gauntlet" would be a retractable blade, a flamethrower, and a small radar screen.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tor Ruhk on Mar 11, 2021, 03:55 AM
I'm just following cause I love where this is going and I wanna see the throwing knives, I also want plenty of em.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Jare talon on Mar 11, 2021, 08:45 AM
Shoulders: Made of sintra, with trauma plates, and a Narglatch signet on the right shoulder. I’ll have to consider the construction of the signet. I may put the Yustapir Clan sigil on the other shoulder, but the clan doesn’t seem very active?
Just make sure you are OM before putting a clan signet because I'm pretty sure that will be a flag in the application process.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 11, 2021, 12:22 PM
1. Thrift stores can be a very good place to find things for your kit. I found my gloves at a local market.
2. I'm right-handed and decided that I would have my gauntlets be fairly simple, meaning no more than three accesories per gauntlet. In the left one which would be my "tech gauntlet" I would put a grapple hook, control panel and a small screen. In my "weapons gauntlet" would be a retractable blade, a flamethrower, and a small radar screen.
I'm hoping the thrift stores will prove fruitful! Can't wait for my family to get vaccinated so I can go window shopping. It's useful to hear that you're planning the weapons gauntlet on your dominant arm, too. And you just reminded me, there's lots of options for electronics in the gauntlet! It'd be cool to get a keypad that types Mando'a onto a screen...
Just make sure you are OM before putting a clan signet because I'm pretty sure that will be a flag in the application process.
Oh, great point, I should have clarified! The clan sigil would be blank until OM acceptance, and any brigades sigils will be blank until brigades acceptance.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arminius on Mar 11, 2021, 12:31 PM
I'm hoping the thrift stores will prove fruitful! Can't wait for my family to get vaccinated so I can go window shopping. It's useful to hear that you're planning the weapons gauntlet on your dominant arm, too. And you just reminded me, there's lots of options for electronics in the gauntlet! It'd be cool to get a keypad that types Mando'a onto a screen...
I have experience with electronics and it would be possible, but you would have to find a very ingenious way to hide all the cables and components. The LCD displays I plan to use are non-functional but eventually I would like to change them for functional ones.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 11, 2021, 12:47 PM
I have experience with electronics and it would be possible, but you would have to find a very ingenious way to hide all the cables and components. The LCD displays I plan to use are non-functional but eventually I would like to change them for functional ones.
It's a good thing that Mando gauntlets are so chunky in design, but you're right, a screen and a keypad would probably require lots of GPIOs to wire up... and a quick glance through Adafruit shows their prebuilt keypads are much larger than in the show! I'd have to give it a lot more thought if I wanted to add that in the future.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Matchstick1021 on Mar 12, 2021, 10:31 AM
No key pad but this is that my gauntlet electronics look like now. (https://i.imgur.com/PhP6wsX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j53bXpi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GGhxD9o.jpg)
The one has an OLED screen that shows a rotating radar. You can find instructions on how to make them on the forum.
The other has fiber optic wire to act as the whistling bird rockets and is lit by LEDs.
All of it is run by 9v batteries, I’ve seen plenty of members with more impressive electronics in their gaunts so it can definitely be done.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Mar 12, 2021, 03:22 PM
I don't know about OM approval on these, but one thing I've seen reference to is mounting a smartphone in your gauntlet. The screen might be a bit big, depending.
You've put an awful lot of thought into this. Very cool concept, very good questions.
If you're doing electronics anyway, and looking for ways to cool the helmet, fans are evidently highly recommended. I presume the keyslots on the back are common vent points, but that's a guess.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 12, 2021, 11:32 PM
Those are fantastic gauntlets, Matchstick! I’ll be needing to see a bunch of them for inspiration on designing my own. The radar is a great idea.
Funny you mention using a phone, Ravlin – I’m actually crafting a cosplay for a class project right now that involves an integrated app, and I’ll be making a gauntlet to hold the phone! That’ll be a good experience, but for a Mando, I’m thinking I’ll try a smaller screen so it’s not as crowded to fit all my other stuff on it.
I’m sure I’ll end up with fans in the helmet, but I’m also interested in having additional slots for ventilation and hearing. Hopefully I can do both! I usually wear a cosplay through the whole day at a convention, 8-12 hours sometimes, so comfort is a key concern, even if I don’t wear a helmet straight through.
I’ve been looking more into it and have answered my question #2 – seems K9 trainers use their non-dominant arm for the bite gauntlet, and their dominant hand to have distractions, so I’ll go with that!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 14, 2021, 03:00 AM
Oh man, I’m REALLY havin’ a time. Whenever I tried to take reference shots from the show, my screen went black -- this doesn't happen on a friend's computer? So I had to jump through some crazy hoops to get proper reference material… oy vey!! ??? A crazy amount of work later, I finally figured out how to get some reference shots, and went to watch episode one.
Here are the things I’m specifically keeping an eye out for:
Amban rifle
Cape (namely, its interactions with the rifle)
Weathering (namely, the chrome beskar)
Throwing knives
Tranquilizer darts
Gauntlet tools
Flamethrower
Grappling hook
Notes from S01E01:
Amban rifle:
The cape is often above his rifle, though occasionally it is underneath.
The rifle is not directly hooked to his bandolier! The bandolier itself goes under his cape, but there is a clip over the top that connects to the rifle. This clip/strap hangs down from the rifle, I don’t see an equivalent one near the barrel. I recall some promotional pictures (I wish I had saved the link!) that show he has a slit in his cape that hooks the bottom half of the rifle to keep it in place, though. Hmm...
It’s kinda confusing how the unhooking action works from a practical standpoint? I’m probably looking too far into it and it’s just movie magic. But man, am I relieved I’m not doing a screen-accurate Din! It’s good I have the freedom to test out my own solutions and just use these as references.
11:07: He unhooks the top half and flips it around to set on the table. Then as he leaves, he has it under his arm.
14:46: When startled by the doctor, he’s able to quickly pull it over the top of his shoulder into firing position. The top unhooks freely.
As shown when first arriving on Arvala-7, he can see through the scope clearly, even when it’s pretty far from his visor. Wonder if it’s connected to his helmet in any way? This is the same for his monocular when scoping out the encampment.
Weathering: It’s clear that even with a chrome finish, there’s some weathering going on with Mando’s armor – the finish is covered with a layer of dust and dirt. I’m concerned about how difficult that will be to replicate without harming the chrome finish in real life… I’ll get some screenshots when he gets his full cuirass.
Tranquilizer darts: These darts send a localized (~3ft radius?) electric shock when hit. The blurrg are immediately knocked out. Sadly, there’s not a good shot of Kuiil’s dart gun. I may have to make my own design inspired by other dart guns (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dart). It’s worth noting that the Wookiepedia entry says Jango had a gauntlet dartcaster.
Flamethrower: On his right gauntlet, outer side, used at 22:57. No good screenshots.
Grapple: Used at 33:30, and even less clearly at 2:20, but I didn’t get a good screenshot. It’s on the outer side of his right gauntlet.
Reference Shots:
Amban rifle, over and under the cape: (https://i.imgur.com/1XvD2At.png)
Bandolier, showing the main strap going under the cape, and the Amban strap going over: (https://i.imgur.com/I3ejnvf.png)
Note the visible Amban strap: (https://i.imgur.com/3wyk1p3.png) (https://i.imgur.com/EAhukl4.png)
Kuiil's tranquilizer darts (Oh, imagine my joy, when after pausing every 2 milliseconds to get those first three screenshots, the zoomed-in fourth shot appears!): (https://i.imgur.com/oQfTyCf.png)
Watching the show with an eagle eye is revealing some details I never noticed! These aren’t necessarily related to the build, I just thought they were neat.
Near the Crest’s cockpit, he has a hook to hang his Amban rifle!
When Greef reaches forward to pay him, Mando reaches forward to guard his fobs. Don’t take his fobs without payment first!
When asking for the asset’s chain code, Mando has his hand on the front of his left gauntlet where the keypad is. Seems he was going to type in the code!
The beskar ingot has slits on the back, never noticed that before.
The covert is cool:
One of the mandos in the covert isn’t wearing a pauldron, it’s just their flight suit! I’m reporting them for a CRL violation! (Wonder if that’s where the option of only wearing one when out trooping came from?)
Saw some cape colors in orange and olive green.
Are the kids not wearing traditional mando helmets?
When Mando meets the Armorer, he gives her the beskar ingot and the flan he got from the jobs. Do members of the tribe pool their money with the others? Or was he paying her to make the pauldron?
Mando doesn’t mention donating the excess beskar before she comments how it will sponsor many foundlings – either it happened offscreen, or that generosity is expected of tribe members.
There’s some cool shots of the electronic bits underneath the pauldron when she’s putting it on.
Our boy’s gauntlet got WRECKED by that blurrg! Seriously, looks like it got shattered and burnt!
Overall, I’m really enjoying watching the show in 5 millisecond increments. :laugh: Life is getting busy for me so it will take a while, but I plan on doing this for the whole series, maybe multiple times if I find something else I want references or notes of.
EDIT: So, I found out the issue with the blacked-out reference shots… Turns out it was a browser issue, not an OS issue like was suggested to me. I spent hours setting up a laggy virtual box when the answer was that simple. RIP. At least that will save me some stress in the future, but for now, let me mourn the last several hours of my life.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arminius on Mar 14, 2021, 03:22 AM
I think you'll find this site very useful. It has all of the first season of the Mandalorian frame by frame, perfect for searching for reference images.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 14, 2021, 04:12 AM
OHHHHH! Now that, that is beautiful!! Thank you for the link, it'll prove very useful for season one! Looks like the pictures can even be posted directly to the forum without imgur, with great sizing and everything! Like check out this useful screenshot from episode 2 showing the Amban rifle over the cape, I think you can see that lower strap I was looking for, right where the cape bunches up:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Matchstick1021 on Mar 14, 2021, 10:56 AM
Yeah Disney doesn’t like people taking screenshots, when I tried it the screen is just back. Thankfully you’ve found a workaround!
I’m enjoying seeing the small details and such, keep it up!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 14, 2021, 02:08 PM
Here’s the secret to getting screenshots, if anyone else needs it: Try downloading third-party screenshot software, then be disappointed when that blacks out, too. Then download a Virtual Machine and install an Ubuntu operating system on it, because the internet said the Windows 10 OS is what the problem was. Spend forever tweaking the settings to get the Wi-Fi and sound working and attempting to lower the significant lag so the VM doesn’t crash whenever you try to stream, because your poor craptop can’t handle streaming D+ within a fake computer that’s running on your actual computer. Since it’s basically unwatchable within the VM, watch the episode on your actual laptop, then when you find a screenshot you want, skip to that part in your VM’s browser, take a screenshot of what’s going on in your VM, paste it into Paint on your actual computer to edit, upload to imgur, and voila~! Not an inconvenience at all.
….Then, download Firefox on your actual computer, and discover that the blackout thing was only happening with Chrome and screenshots work perfectly fine on Firefox. ??? :laugh: I know this happened yesterday, but I'm gonna go take a nap!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Mar 15, 2021, 02:40 AM
Here are the things I’m specifically keeping an eye out for:
Amban rifle
Cape (namely, its interactions with the rifle)
Weathering (namely, the chrome beskar)
...
The rifle is not directly hooked to his bandolier! The bandolier itself goes under his cape, but there is a clip over the top that connects to the rifle. This clip/strap hangs down from the rifle, I don’t see an equivalent one near the barrel. I recall some promotional pictures (I wish I had saved the link!) that show he has a slit in his cape that hooks the bottom half of the rifle to keep it in place, though. Hmm...
It’s kinda confusing how the unhooking action works from a practical standpoint? I’m probably looking too far into it and it’s just movie magic. But man, am I relieved I’m not doing a screen-accurate Din! It’s good I have the freedom to test out my own solutions and just use these as references.
Weathering: It’s clear that even with a chrome finish, there’s some weathering going on with Mando’s armor – the finish is covered with a layer of dust and dirt. I’m concerned about how difficult that will be to replicate without harming the chrome finish in real life… I’ll get some screenshots when he gets his full cuirass.
Yeah, matching to screen-accurate is a pain. Playing with original concepts is a lot easier.
On the rifle sling: A possibly similar mounting concept can be found on the Shadiversity YouTube channel. He mostly talks medieval and fantasy stuff, although he's got some stuff about The Mandalorian and Star Wars. Anyway, he's got a concept for a loop-and-nail back-mounted bow, and a variant of that might work for you.
On the chrome weathering: Another YouTube suggestion - Adam Savage's Tested. I can't remember which videos specifically talk about this, but the One-Day Builds have a lot of weathering tips, particularly with regard to washes. I do remember that his Terminator T-800 video talks about weathering a chrome finish, and that's an ACTUAL chrome finish.
The basics of weathering a metal finish, as I understand them, are washing over it with various "dirty" colors (black, raw umber, burnt sienna, etc.) and then trying to wipe it back off. It leaves the wash in the interstices, and shouldn't damage anything. If you want some light scratching, maybe steel wool instead of sandpaper, just to tooth it up? Try that on a test piece first, I'm not sure about that.
Actually, you may want to try all of this on test pieces. Generally good practice anyway. Sounds like you know that, you seem like a veteran cosplayer.
On a side note, you might get some good results on small parts with aluminum plumber's tape. It takes weathering very well; I've used it to make some wooden swords look like steel. It's very convincing, relatively cheap, and a forgiving material if you apply it carefully. The seams might present a problem, though, and it's not as durable as a good cured paint job. I can see it working REALLY well on the throwing knives, though. Just a thought.
I'll have to keep an eye out for those details you mentioned when I finally watch The Mandalorian (yeah, yeah, I know, I know....)
Keep up the great work, and enjoy your research!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 20, 2021, 01:30 AM
Thanks for the YouTube recommendations! I hadn’t heard of Shadiversity and didn’t know Adam Savage did a chrome weathering video, those should really come in handy.
I’m flattered I seem like a veteran cosplayer, though I’m very much not – this is my first legit build, which may be why I’m being so perfectionistic in the planning stage. Test pieces will abound, because I have no idea what I'm doing!
Aluminum plumber’s tape is another thing I’ve never heard about, it looks very promising for the throwing knives. That theater experience has earned you lots of great tips!
The next few weeks are pretty busy for me, so I won’t have much time to post or research for a bit. But if the last week was any indicator, I’ll still love lurking everyone’s threads whenever I get a spare moment. :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 16, 2021, 09:21 PM
Phew – my section of school deadlines is over for now, so I get to dive back in here!
One of my school projects involved crafting, and I opted for Sintra painted chrome, so I got to practice working with Sintra and airbrushing! It was very rushed, but I learned a lot. Turns out, orange peel is a thing, so I need to figure out how to prevent that. Also, I’ve been so worried that any imperfections would ruin a chrome finish. But as it turns out, even with paint drips, no Bondo, not enough sanding, and too much orange peel, it’s still an enchanting look. I shouldn’t worry so much – when I put the time in on the final product, it’ll look great!
Also! I dug around my abandoned cosplay stuff, and what did I find…? Only about a yard and a half of pleather! Thank you, 5-year-ago-me who abandoned my Altair cosplay, for this gift. Let’s make sure we stay motivated to finish my mando, though… :P It’s a much darker color than I was originally planning, but given my low budget, I’m inclined to adjust my design. I weathered a section of scrap, and I’m loving the way it looks next to the chrome:
(https://i.imgur.com/C7py59Z.jpg)
I went ahead and updated my concept with color samples from promising fabrics. Aside from the pleather, the references are all online, so the color may be off. Also, sampling chrome is really hard, so the coloring may be off there too, but you get the idea!
(https://i.imgur.com/xhusqge.png)
I’ve gotten rather concerned that the pleather is too close in shade to the scrubs, so I’m starting to consider sewing my own. Is patterning as simple as tracing around a t-shirt and pants that fit me and tailoring from there, or is it more complicated than that? Hmm…
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 18, 2021, 06:28 PM
I’ve spent some time looking through fabrics online and am getting a bit overwhelmed with decisions. It’s trickier to choose because I have no idea what color of boots / gloves the thrift stores will bestow upon me, and I don’t want to go shopping until I’m fully vaccinated mid-May.
I LOVE the off-black shade of brown/gray that Din uses in his flightsuit (https://databank.501st.com/mw501/images/5/5f/D2_Jumpsuit.png), but there are no scrubs in that color, and I’m having trouble finding matching fabrics. Do I want to make my own, even with no sewing experience? I’d love to have nice custom detail stitching/panels, is that even possible to do on the seamless scrubs? I’m starting to wonder if I should budget for a V1 and V2 of soft parts so I can allow myself the leeway to be imperfect the first time through.
Paint-wise, turns out the polished brass gold chrome I fell in love with is discontinued! I may have to use the food coloring tint option. I also can’t find a good orange chrome – the Spaz Stix candy orange seems to be my best option, but there aren’t sample pics of it sprayed over chrome. I may have to buy it and see for myself…
Anyway, I’ve brought you guys a charcuterie of mandos. The first row swaps flight suit and flak vest/kama colors, the second row is the same but with a gray cape. Thoughts?
(https://i.imgur.com/hPLhh98.png)
A question regarding the CRLs -- I can't find info about the band around the bicep. Can that be armor, or does it have to be leather/fabric? I'd like to have at least one to hold throwing knives.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Apr 19, 2021, 02:10 AM
If you've already got scrubs, I think I'd recommend using them, at least to start. Din's flight suit and cape are almost the same color, but it works because the textures are different. If that's also true with your current materials, it could work out the same.
Custom stitching or embroidery might work on scrubs - I guess it depends on the material. It's possible you could test it by making a double hem of some sort - kind of fold the sleeve up a bit, then back down half as much? Please take that with a shaker of salt, though - my experience with sewing is limited.
Alternatively, you could add detail panels to your scrubs. Like patch pockets, but they don't open. Or do they...?
As for the options, I personally vote for 2, 3, 5, and 6. The accented flak vest/kama seems to read better to me. I think I like the dark vest/kama best, and also the gray cloak over the brown, but in the end it's down to your preference. You're the first one seeing this in person, after all.
About the biceps - I'm not sure, but I think armor there is acceptable. I'd recommend checking some photos of approved members, with emphasis here on heavies or super-heavies. Even if you're not going that far, they may have approved bicep armor you can use as reference.
Good luck, and keep up the great work. If all else fails with the paint, maybe Rub 'n Buff will help - although that might only work for small details. I think Krylon and Rustoleum may have good metals, but maybe not what you're after. Hope you can find what you need!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 22, 2021, 09:45 PM
Thanks so much for your input on which numbers you like, it’s real helpful! If any lurkers could chime in, I’d love to hear your opinions too – I don’t have many people to ask irl.
I don’t have the scrubs yet, which is why it’s so tough to choose! All my options are open. I think if I make sure the scrubs have seams, it should be possible to seam rip them and add detail stitching. I believe I’ll add detail panels to the vest/kama, but I’ll look into doing them on the flight suit too for extra texture!
After looking into paints, I think candy is indeed the effect I’m going for: semitransparent topcoats that show the undercoat through it. I ordered the Spaz Stix Candy Gold to test out, which looks more orangey to me in the images – if it turns out gold, perfect! If it turns out orange, I can use that too.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Rhue_Shofytt on Apr 22, 2021, 11:44 PM
I was originally going to vote for 1, but the more I looked at them the more I liked 4 and 5.
If you can find a set of white/light colored scrubs you could look into dyeing them- the Rit dye website has a whole catalogue of custom colors you can mix using their standard colors, and there's a ton of grey shades. They also have a synthetic dye line if you don't end up going with cotton scrubs.
Also that spaz stix paint looks like liquid orange skittles, I'm excited to see what it looks like IRL :)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Senra Qiin on Apr 23, 2021, 03:09 PM
I personally like and vote for design 4 and 5! :cookie:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 23, 2021, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the input, guys! It's great to have insight from fresh eyes that haven't been staring at the color palettes as long as I have. :laugh:
Dyeing something sounds kind of intimidating (How do I know it will dry the right color, oh noooo :D ), but that could be a very realistic solution! A cursory look at Rit's color formulas shows the shades I like require rayon, which aren't the scrubs I was initially looking at, so it'll require further investigation to find other scrubs that'll work.
On the topic of scrubs, I actually found some in a shade that's pretty close (https://www.scrubsandbeyond.com/skechers-vitality-3-pocket-logo-waist-scrub-pants.html)! However, getting the full set would set me back ~$70, which is high for my current budget and pretty nerve-wracking for my no-experience self to mess up. I'll have to consider whether it's worth going all in from the start or getting a set of cheap ones for a first go.
The Spaz Stix is pretty exciting! I'm hoping it works as the main gold armor, but if it really is that deep colorshifting gold-orange, that could make for some pretty neat symbol colors. My main armor will be silver/gold, but I'm thinking the symbols or Mando'a texts I paint will match the traditional color meanings: orange for shereshoy (lust for life), white for new beginnings. Gold for vengeance may work, too -- I'm thinking Arco may have originally gotten this armor by participating in raids to recover beskar from Imperials that stole it in the Great Purge, so that would fit right in.
I'm off for the day recovering from my second covid shot (bleeeeegh!), so I think I'll use this time to scour episodes 2 and 3 for details and references! I especially wanna check out episode 3 for the covert mandos, I'm itching to get started on my custom chest plate design.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 23, 2021, 07:37 PM
Notes from S01E02:
Amban rifle: Like in Ep1, at 3:09 he pulls it over his shoulder.
Weathering: Interestingly, the weathering on his helmet is gone compared to the first episode. Did he polish it? It gets dirtier in later shots, then of course it’s a mess when fighting the mudhorn. It’s kind of interesting to see how rapidly the weathering changes between shots.
Flamethrower: On the outside of the right gauntlet, 18:43.
Grappling line: On the outside (or top?) of the left gauntlet. It can wrap or embed. Seen wrapping at 7:54, embedding at 18:50. The gauntlet flares open when activated. There may be one on each gauntlet, since it was on his right gauntlet in episode 1.
Reference Shots:
The cape bunches up here where the strap on the Amban rifle goes through and connects to the belt: (https://imgur.com/Qa8bOQ5.png)
Flamethrower, on the outside of the gauntlet: (https://imgur.com/ZJTw2eE.png)
Flamethrower again, plus, is that the same screen as on the V2 gloves? (https://imgur.com/trVkRox.png)
Gauntlet flaring open to use the grapple: (https://i.imgur.com/Zu6Y5Jg.png)
Grapple again: (https://imgur.com/G2wsytS.png)
The underside of the chest plate: (https://imgur.com/AvFg3ao.png)
Broken gauntlet and chest plate: (https://imgur.com/uA8LzrB.png)
Misc Notes:
It’s worth noting the… stitching? Cauterizing? tool Mando is using at 4:19. I think it would be good to have some kind of healing instrument on my kit…
How cool would it be to have the screen-accurate underwiring and electronics on our plates! I wish we had better-lit shots of it. (Side note: no Arco, don’t you DARE go off in the weeds like this, you will never get anything done. :laugh: )
You can see how his gauntlet got destroyed by the blurrg! It looks like it was sheared off in layers, and it has the same underwiring as the plates. Again, I wish we got a closer look… Then it’s miraculously fixed in the shot where he does his pre-fight weapons check, then back to broken afterward? Screen inconsistency, dun dun duuuun!
Looks like there’s a flashlight attachment on his right earcap after he’s in the cave, which is then gone when he’s thrown outside. We didn’t see him put it on, so I wonder if it’s built into the helmet?
He controls the bassinet with buttons on the left gauntlet, then can move it with motion controls on the right gauntlet. This is shown in the mudhorn fight and again in the Crest at the end of the episode.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 23, 2021, 11:39 PM
Oh boy, The Sin! Picture dump incoming for this one!
Notes from S01E03:
Amban rifle: He looks through his rifle and clicks something on his right earcap to begin looking/listening in on the Client. It can see heat and listen through walls. Is that the rifle, or the helmet? He rotates a dial on the rifle’s scope to adjust the audio quality. Wonder how that works?
Flamethrower: V2 gauntlets this episode onward! Outside of his left gauntlet, 23:18. Outside of his right gauntlet, 28:46. We see what it looks like when it’s out of fuel here.
Grappling line: Outside of his right gauntlet, 21:20. At 30:57 we finally get a clear shot of where exactly it is in the gauntlet: right in the front center!
I’m adding a new thing to keep an eye out for: Background outfits! I want get a feel for common swarzy design elements to inspire details on my soft parts.
Reference Shots:
This is a really interesting shot showing the quick fixes he did to his armor! His thigh plate is tied on with fabric, and he soldered the broken panels of his gauntlets back on: (https://imgur.com/g78o1BZ.png) (https://imgur.com/sxNdcps.png)
A neat look at the canon WIP of V2 armor: (https://imgur.com/7EMcmcV.png) (https://imgur.com/oWKwfZy.png) (https://imgur.com/tMIWVFw.png)
Pauldron attachment and broken chest plate: (https://imgur.com/Kz14Nvb.png)
Flamethrowers, showing left and right gauntlet placements: (https://imgur.com/8OdhxNC.png) (https://imgur.com/0fmYoZ9.png) (https://imgur.com/0fxFAxh.png)
There were a whole mess of background mandos (with even more images in the full album (https://imgur.com/a/KK5b9hP.png)), here’s the ones we can kind of see: (https://imgur.com/ZGE1Muy.png) (https://imgur.com/aeKK9HB.png) (I liked this shot of the vibroknife, haha) (https://imgur.com/dsOPQDK.png) (https://imgur.com/D5DxTq8.png) (https://imgur.com/8x8eDy0.png) (https://imgur.com/RbA1fV3.png) (https://imgur.com/aE2xtKB.png) (https://imgur.com/qHCnw6j.png) (https://imgur.com/a5PuLdq.png) (https://imgur.com/GTHmTNL.png) (https://imgur.com/yNzhnOC.png) (https://imgur.com/lvzzTio.png) (https://imgur.com/hKznKe5.png) (https://imgur.com/8nBz8Bz.png) (https://imgur.com/1z8T6ep.png) (https://imgur.com/z1v96NX.png) (https://imgur.com/dSEVoWU.png) (https://imgur.com/TTbUtFk.png)
The mandos are hard to see, so I did some searching and found some behind the scenes / artbook shots that are far more useful! (https://i0.wp.com/halcyonrealms.com/blogpics/mandoab09.jpg?zoom=1.25&resize=750%2C500)
I love the beige/orange mando here, and the brown/blue color scheme is gorgeous! Interesting how some of them aren't meeting CRL minimum, including the one that's lacking a chest plate (!). (https://preview.redd.it/eysv2nebyer61.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d13ae517b764f57600b1a6e9e84488117ba4cb6e)
The beige/bronze/blue and bronze/olive ones here are lovely! (https://i.imgur.com/E25DvUi.png)
Misc notes:
Most of the interesting stuff is covered, I just wanna comment on the fact that shooting a door’s control panel to make it open shows very poor security design.
It's about time to get some cardboard, stare at these refs, and get to work designing a custom chest plate! I think I'll try an edit of Paz's plate first, since I suspect its wrapping design may make it easier to fit me. Then I'll try an edit of Din's V2 plate. I'm leaning towards a more angular design, so I may or may not try Bo Katan's, depending on how well those two work.
Side note, I should really save up for the artbook... I imagine I'd go ham for more behind-the-scenes stuff!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Apr 24, 2021, 01:38 AM
There is one glaring problem with that “forging” scene, and it’s a problem you see a lot in movies: You don’t make armor or swords from molten steel that’s completely melted. You heat it until it’s yellow (about 1500 F) and hammer the metal into shape. You don’t cast it. Cast steel is very brittle with a huge grain structure.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 24, 2021, 02:20 PM
Cool insight on the realities of forging! I guess that's the benefit of sci-fi -- the fictional material must have ~magical~ properties beyond our comprehension where melting it makes it stronger somehow? :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Apr 24, 2021, 04:05 PM
Cool insight on the realities of forging! I guess that's the benefit of sci-fi -- the fictional material must have ~magical~ properties beyond our comprehension where melting it makes it stronger somehow? :laugh:
I watch a lot of Forged in Fire, Man At Arms Reforged, and That Makes.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Sylvilagus on Apr 24, 2021, 07:30 PM
Ah, but beskar isn't steel, is it? I'm sure Ms. Armorer knows what she's doing.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Apr 25, 2021, 01:31 AM
Ah, but beskar isn't steel, is it? I'm sure Ms. Armorer knows what she's doing.
Yes, it is. In The Mandalorian, they call it Beskar Steel, an alloy made from Mandalorian Iron, which, as the name suggests, is a type of Iron, possibly an isotope. Thus, while it may be more durable than other types of steel, it is still steel. In fact, based upon the patterns on the ingots, it’s a pattern welded steel, similar to Damascus Steel or folded Tamahagane ( Japanese steel).
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Rhue_Shofytt on Apr 25, 2021, 10:00 AM
I think the point is that the Star Wars universe clearly doesn't follow the same laws of physics of our universe (FTL travel anyone?) And therefore it's reasonable to assume that their materials act differently than our own. They also call their interplanetary transportation vehicles "ships" but they obviously don't just float in water.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Apr 25, 2021, 10:27 AM
I think the point is that the Star Wars universe clearly doesn't follow the same laws of physics of our universe (FTL travel anyone?) And therefore it's reasonable to assume that their materials act differently than our own. They also call their interplanetary transportation vehicles "ships" but they obviously don't just float in water.
I respectfully disagree on that. Any “bending” of the laws of physics in SW has a very clear and plausible (if not really possible) explanation, such as the concept of hyperspace, gravatic repulsors and grav plating, and the Force. Otherwise, they hold pretty close to physics. The saga takes place in another galaxy, not another universe. So the laws of physics still apply.
However, we might be getting a little off topic here.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Sylvilagus on Apr 25, 2021, 10:30 AM
Loth-cats aren't Felis catus and womp rats aren't Rattus norvegicus, either. And supposedly beskar gains its strength partially from the arrangement of carbons in the properly forged metal, the secret of forging it being known only to Mandos. It's a fantasy/sci-fi material which is referred to as "steel" but is actually an Unobtainium. Mithril was called "Moria-silver", but it's got properties that Ag does not, even if you pattern weld it. Star Wars is soft sci-fi at best, or space fantasy. There's an order of space monks who can kill you with their brain. Is it so difficult to believe that the secret beskar forging methods passed down through centuries might involve melting the stuff?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Apr 25, 2021, 10:59 AM
Loth-cats aren't Felis catus and womp rats aren't Rattus norvegicus, either. And supposedly beskar gains its strength partially from the arrangement of carbons in the properly forged metal, the secret of forging it being known only to Mandos. It's a fantasy/sci-fi material which is referred to as "steel" but is actually an Unobtainium. Mithril was called "Moria-silver", but it's got properties that Ag does not, even if you pattern weld it. Star Wars is soft sci-fi at best, or space fantasy. There's an order of space monks who can kill you with their brain. Is it so difficult to believe that the secret beskar forging methods passed down through centuries might involve melting the stuff?
No, they’re different species that evolved convergent to cats and rats but on different planets.
As for Beskar, the fact that they include the use of carbon in the making of it is further proof that it is a form of actual steel, not an “unobtanium”. It’s based on real metallurgy, not total fantasy. That’s why it’s so believable.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Senra Qiin on Apr 25, 2021, 02:16 PM
Vod, we're taking over Arco's thread :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Apr 25, 2021, 03:14 PM
Wow, Arco, you found some great shots! You're doing a lot of legwork here, and I am sure that'll show up in your final build.
Screen inconsistencies and continuity errors are, unfortunately, a fact of movie-making. The guys working on the show did an awesome job, but they can't get everything. It is what it is.
As for scrubs, I'd recommend checking your local Target or Wal-Mart or equivalent - once you feel better, of course (speaking of which, feel better! :) They ought to have a variety of colors and sizes. I wondered the other day if you've considered lighter-colored scrubs - whitish or cream - just a thought. If you've made your choice, DON'T SECOND GUESS YOURSELF! Whatever you choose should work, and your local OM's and App Team will help a lot once you've got a WIP up.
Some miscellany - In 01-02: I think the medical tool is a cauterizer. A little med-tool would be a great little addition!
I'm not sure, but I think Din's helmet light is a fold-out deal. In other episodes his hand positions and movements seem to indicate it's kind of a small panel that flips down. I think I'm going to add a static LED torch to my helmet's right ear piece when I do my helmet.
01-03: I love the background Mandos. Great episode, especially when they drop in toward the end.
You found SO many good shots of the covert guys! Despite my build being a "Modern", I'm totally stealing these for inspiration.
Keep up the great work! I can't wait to see your WIPs.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Rhue_Shofytt on Apr 25, 2021, 04:40 PM
Also those artbook illustrations are awesome, I'm looking forward to seeing what your custom design looks like! :D
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 25, 2021, 10:37 PM
I love that we’re the kind of people who can go off on tangents about realism in sci-fi! :laugh: I don’t know anyone in real life who’s excited to get in the weeds like this, so it’s kind of refreshing.
And Ravlin, I’m facepalming so hard right now, because I never even thought of checking out Target etc! I’d only checked the online stock of local uniform stores. And now that you’re talking about his helmet light, that really does seem like a practical thing to add to a kit. It’d be fun to use in-character when we need extra light at an event.
Regarding the covert mandos, I actually stumbled upon Sakane’s useful album of screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/ffYW3Mj). He edited his to make them brighter! It’s much easier on the eyes, I gotta figure out how to do that.
It was really helpful to have people’s input on color schemes – as a matter of fact, it turns out the color scheme I’d been set on for the last few months got the fewest votes. :laugh: And the two I was leaning towards (4 and 5) were universally the most liked, so it’s nice to have that confirmation! So far, the most promising fabric for detail paneling is the obligatory sci-fi hexagons (https://www.joann.com/cosplay-by-yaya-han-stretch-fabric-black-scuba-hexagon/15469265.html). Looking forward to shopping in person to see if I find anything else.
It’s neat to see the progression of my concepts! I’m teetering between color schemes 4 and 5, leaning towards 5 for now. I wonder what else will be changed by the time it’s built:
(https://i.imgur.com/Zg5r8VK.png)
The chestplate mockups are proving trickier than expected… but that’s what they’re for! It’ll be good to get this solidified before moving on to sintra. I gotta get me some more cardboard...
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Apr 25, 2021, 10:57 PM
I’ve been tied up in other places on the forums so I apologize for being absent here for a while.
In regards to the bicep armor CRL, you’re welcome to use leather or nylon with Sinatra fastened to it. It just can’t have any visible elastic there.
Dunno if that’s irrelevant now or not. Haha.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 25, 2021, 11:14 PM
An answer to my question is always relevant, even when the question got buried by my ramblings! :D Thanks for the info! It just occurred to me that I may want to hold off on the bicep bands being armored until I nail down what's light/med/heavy for PI -- sounds like I could use the pleather for now and add sintra later if it fits.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 28, 2021, 12:03 AM
I may not be active for a bit, I’m hitting another patch of too-many-deadlines-at-once. Boo!
Just a quick thought I had to write down: it could be neat to have shock panels or electrified wiring on my gauntlets, especially if I’m having a gauntlet dedicated to defense. So if a narglatch gets my arm and I want him to let go, I could send a charge through it. That also opens the possibility for glowy things / sound effects! Could I have acrylic tubing with EL wire fed through it and a light coat of metallic paint on top, in a way that looks like metal until it lights up? I’ll have to give it some thought…
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ashad Shrynn on Apr 29, 2021, 10:56 AM
I really like the brown and dark grey color schemes, it adds a nice contrast with the chrome parts ! Number 4 has some paladin vibes in my opinions ;D
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on Apr 29, 2021, 12:30 PM
I love that we’re the kind of people who can go off on tangents about realism in sci-fi! :laugh: I don’t know anyone in real life who’s excited to get in the weeds like this, so it’s kind of refreshing.
And Ravlin, I’m facepalming so hard right now, because I never even thought of checking out Target etc! I’d only checked the online stock of local uniform stores. And now that you’re talking about his helmet light, that really does seem like a practical thing to add to a kit. It’d be fun to use in-character when we need extra light at an event.
Regarding the covert mandos, I actually stumbled upon Sakane’s useful album of screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/ffYW3Mj). He edited his to make them brighter! It’s much easier on the eyes, I gotta figure out how to do that.
It was really helpful to have people’s input on color schemes – as a matter of fact, it turns out the color scheme I’d been set on for the last few months got the fewest votes. :laugh: And the two I was leaning towards (4 and 5) were universally the most liked, so it’s nice to have that confirmation! So far, the most promising fabric for detail paneling is the obligatory sci-fi hexagons (https://www.joann.com/cosplay-by-yaya-han-stretch-fabric-black-scuba-hexagon/15469265.html). Looking forward to shopping in person to see if I find anything else.
It’s neat to see the progression of my concepts! I’m teetering between color schemes 4 and 5, leaning towards 5 for now. I wonder what else will be changed by the time it’s built:
(https://i.imgur.com/Zg5r8VK.png)
The chestplate mockups are proving trickier than expected… but that’s what they’re for! It’ll be good to get this solidified before moving on to sintra. I gotta get me some more cardboard...
Personally, I would go for color concept #5. That being said, those shoulder plates don't seem to really fit the over all aesthetic of your kit - they seem just plopped on there and out of place. If you want to go true legacy style shoulder armor, you essentially use the pauldrons that din has but then have segmented bicep armor coming down underneath them - instead of the spikey sticking out segmented ones.
All in all though, neat concept and definitely some gem finds there with the concept art. I might need to track those down and download them on my phone for ease of use.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 29, 2021, 11:38 PM
Thanks for the input, Ashad! The gray and brown are really popular, I’m definitely picking between 4 and 5. :)
You bring up an interesting point Fenn, so I played around on MandoCreator and swapped the legacy shoulders and legs for designs more similar to Din’s, plus a Paz shoulder to check out the layered look.
(https://i.imgur.com/dBvWYpq.png)
Those shoulder options look nice, but somehow they don’t seem right – I think I’ve become attached to the spiky and angular look of the legacy plates! I imagine the spiky design will fit in more once I get my millions of throwing knives poking out from every surface (and I’ve been considering a spiky narglatch pelt too).
I know legacy plates are approvable, but… looking through the concepts, I do wish there was more precedence for this style plate in the PI era. I know I don’t have to be part of the covert, but still! I may try out that gold trim with ridges instead of trauma plates because that’s what we see more from the show. Of course, once I get my chest plate design figured out, I may decide something else fits that aesthetic and all this may go out the window. :laugh: I’m also pondering the idea of having some durasteel leg plates that are more traditionally like the covert’s.
I’ve been thinking this for a while, if I do end up using legacy plates (or legacy-inspired plates), I’d like to check out the media they’re from and learn more about the era.
Also, my Spaz Stix candy gold came in! I want so badly to test it out and see if it’s gold or orange, but I need to focus on other deadlines at the moment.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Apr 30, 2021, 12:54 AM
If you want to learn more about this style of armor, you can start with Tes Vevec and Hondo Karr in Star Wars: Legacy issue number 41 "Rogue's End." I use a Marvel App or Kindle to download digital copies of comics for reference images. Just look between the two to see which has it and who has it cheaper.
But their story is set around 140-130 BBY during the Sith-Imperial and Second Imperial War. An interesting time frame for sure.
And also we just haven't seen Legacy plates roll into the PI Era yet. Though they're both a subset of modern, the chest plate shaping is what really sets it distinctly as the PI class. We've also really only seen the more rounded or single bell type shoulders for now.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on Apr 30, 2021, 08:04 AM
If you want to learn more about this style of armor, you can start with Tes Vevec and Hondo Karr in Star Wars: Legacy issue number 41 "Rogue's End." I use a Marvel App or Kindle to download digital copies of comics for reference images. Just look between the two to see which has it and who has it cheaper.
But their story is set around 140-130 BBY during the Sith-Imperial and Second Imperial War. An interesting time frame for sure.
And also we just haven't seen Legacy plates roll into the PI Era yet. Though they're both a subset of modern, the chest plate shaping is what really sets it distinctly as the PI class. We've also really only seen the more rounded or single bell type shoulders for now.
Yep this. As mentioned previously though, the spikey "Legacy" shoulder armor you mentioned was created by a Mercs member - there was no canon, at the time, reference for that style. They just thought it looked cool - so it's legacy in "theme" only as they are over lapping plates but not the true "Legacy" design from the comics - if that makes sense.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Apr 30, 2021, 04:47 PM
I wonder if the "Legacy" shoulder plates in your concept would be "spiky, but not TOO spiky" if you didn't use the top of the three pauldrons, or if the top was curved a bit to angle down.
(https://i.imgur.com/90Jp1Me.png) Quick-and-dirty Illustrator edit of the Legacy shoulders from MandoCreator. I didn't use your colors because, well, they're yours.
Fenn and Kurshi are spot-on, as always, and know way more than I do. Post-Imp plates seem to be more rounded in general, and I think part of this comes from having some parts scavenged until they get beskar.
Case in point - and since you mention durasteel leg armor - Din's V1 armor has parts scavenged from a Shoretrooper, I believe. At a minimum, his right shin, right pauldron (pre-beskar) and hand armor are scavenged and repainted. The hand and shin armor remain even after he goes full chrome.
I think a Post-Imp pattern can kind of be drawn from the covert and its concept art - I don't think leg armor is all that important to them. Some have it, but it's frequently asymmetrical and appears to be mainly scavenged. Makes sense, as most enemies don't aim for your legs.
Except Ewoks, but if you're doing it right they're on your side. :)
You are free to draw your own conclusions, of course. I am merely attempting to offer a certain point of view. Also, I guess if you can't quite get a piece that looks exactly how you want it, that's in-universe and can be changed later. I maintain that if Din can keep a running update of his armor, so can we - as long as he's approved by the Armorer and we're approved by the App Team, that is.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Rhue_Shofytt on Apr 30, 2021, 04:56 PM
I like the original spiky shoulder plates better too :P they draw the eye up and out in a way that the more rounded pauldron-style designs don't. That being said, I think you could definitely pull off any of the other styles as well!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 30, 2021, 10:57 PM
Thank you for the reading suggestions! I wasn’t sure where to start with them, I’m new to the extended universe and would love to learn more mando culture.
I actually was not aware that this shoulder design was fanmade, I was under the impression it was somewhere in the EU! It’s kind of disappointing in a way, but it does open up options for more edits and customizations. Perhaps I can play with rounding the top of the first plate or adding a center ridge, or adjusting the fit like Ravlin suggested. Looks like I’ll be playing with this design as much as the chestplate.
I’ve been hemming and hawing over my leg plates ever since I got a better look at the covert mandos, and Ravlin basically covered all my concerns! :laugh:
I tend to prefer symmetrical designs, but all the covert mandos have been very asymmetrical, with the impression that their armor isn’t a full set, but rather several pieces all cobbled together. They don’t seem to have the luxury of custom armor. (from episode 3: “I can form a full cuirass. This would be in order for your station.” “That would be a great honor”.) Even then, like Ravlin mentioned, Din’s V2 armor that was custom built for him incorporates leg plates from his old design, just patched up a bit. The shoretrooper shin plates are notable -- kind of surprising that they would wear Imperial armor like that right alongside the beskar/durasteel their culture reveres so much! I always loved the shoretrooper shnees (can you tell I like spiky / angular designs? :P) and was planning on using it, until I learned it was Imperial – character-wise, I think Arco would be too proud to wear it.
By contrast, Bo-Katan and Koska do have symmetrical designs. Axe has asymmetrical thigh armor, but still looks like part of the same set. They do give the impression that their armor was made for them.
So, I’m left wondering -- what kind of impression should I give off? My thought on a backstory was, Arco at one point joined a raiding party to attack Imperials and reclaim stolen beskar, so members of the raiding party got custom armor. It would make sense for Arco’s design to be so unique, but I still enjoy fitting in with canon, and we’ve only seen those two groups of canon PI mandos. C’mon, season 3, show me more of that Mandalorian culture…
I’ve grown attached to the legacy-inspired shoulders, but I’m not married to the legacy legs, so I have some flexibility if I want to try for Din’s half custom beskar / half covert-cobbled-together look.
Because I’ve been strangely obsessed with the armor’s underwiring, it may be neat to have a durasteel shin plate that’s been damaged with exposed wires, a la Din’s episode 2 gauntlets / chest plate. Maybe a big bite mark peeling back the outer layer!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Apr 30, 2021, 11:20 PM
Armor plates should not have wires to begin with. The bracers should because of the weapons and gadgets contained within them, but not the rest. That’s one of the reasons why my Brest plates will not have a display on either of them it’s an inherent weak spot awaiting a blaster shot.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Apr 30, 2021, 11:26 PM
That's one of the things I'm most curious about -- I'd love to learn the in-universe functionality behind the wiring! I suspect it'll just remain a background detail, though.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on May 01, 2021, 03:05 AM
Well, remember, it doesn't necessarily need to have a reason to be in the show, it just has to look cool. Fans and sourcebook authors often come up with explanations for the things propmakers and costumers put on the stuff they make.
As far as Din's wiring is concerned - from Episode 2, after the mudhorn, right? - I got the impression it could be an electromagnetic mounting harness and/or a kind of bio-sign linkup for the helmet. We never really get an Iron Man-esque look at the Heads-Up Display of a Mando helmet - at least not in the show, and in the EU no two are alike, I don't think - so whether it monitors the user's vitals, or how much it does so, or whether it reports on its own integrity isn't set in stone.
I think it's safe to assume that some Mandos have a full damage-assessment suite with integrated vitals monitoring, and others just strap durasteel or beskar plates to their flightsuit and call it good (Ravlin is probably one of the latter). I think in the long run anything that meets the almighty CRL's will work.
Suddenly I realize I have a question. Is Arco a Child of the Watch, or part of mainstream Mando society, or a fringe traditionalist (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Mandalorians)? Not that any choice is wrong or right, just curious. Or I'm dumb and you already said it.
As you note, mainstream Mandos tend toward symmetrical Modern armor and the Outer Rim Mandos lean toward scavenged parts, so which group you're from may influence this to a small degree. If it doesn't - and in the end, it should come down to what you want more than one group's trend - it'd at least be helpful for you to know in case anyone asks (like I just did - I'm maddeningly unhelpful).
It may be worth noting that all the Post-Imperial armor parts we're shown are made of beskar are generally symmetrical. For instance, while Din's V1 shoulders are mismatched, his full V2 shoulders are identical (save for the signet). The Armorer is also symmetrical - although that's more a product of only wearing a chestplate.
TL;DR - Do what you wanna do.
Traditional Mandalorian armor, I believe, is custom-built. It's as unique, and as important, as your skin. Beskar-gam literally means "iron skin", so...you are your armor. Take your time, tailor it, and make it yours. If Arco got custom armor, it stands to reason it wouldn't be a standard, run-of-the-mill silhouette unless you wanted it to be, which you clearly don't.
Also, don't forget that sharp edges on armor have utility. For one, sharp angles redirect incoming fire differently than rounded plates (similar to different hull shapes for boats) - harsh edges are more likely to result in a ricochet or a skitter, while soft ones tend to have a sliding or absorbing effect. Secondarily, your armor is a weapon, too - sharp edges can be utilized in combat. So can rounded edges - ever heard of a kov'nyn (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Keldabe_kiss)? - but spiky things can carry blunt force and cause lacerations. Fun.
Oof. Wall of text. Sorry. Hope some of it is helpful.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on May 01, 2021, 03:53 PM
I wouldn't think toooooo much overall yet about the overall designs on the PI Mandos - i am convinced that all the male armor looking identical is because it's just recasted from Dins armor in order save on production costs - thus the "Clone Wars" era Deathwatch looking identical to him except with the traditional Mando style helmet. Which is unfortunate because there are plenty of prop builders around the Mercs, myself included that would have made the armor for free so keep with true continuity of Mandalorian culture. But that's just my opinion :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on May 01, 2021, 10:39 PM
So Fenn and I have talked about this before. The armor seen on Din pulls heavily from the art from an unreleased video game for Boba Fett 1313. It was set to be released in 2013 but ended up getting canceled for various reasons after the Disney buyout. You can look at these photos and pick out some of the similarities.
Most notably, there is no collar or cod with either design and the 1313 Fett may have soft chest armor initially. Soft ab plates were used in some comic references, so 1313 could've pulled from that. We see similar knees and leg flares, the bandolier and rifle setup and maybe some color inspirations for some of the Mando. While this is all just my observations there's nothing I've seen that says Filoni and Favreau used this as inspiration for Din's armor. While the game may not have been released, it was expected that you'd play as Fett on Coruscant's level 1313 and continue to add more of the traditional armor to yourself as you go. We saw a bit of that with Din, as well.
While any armor is better than no armor, you'd definitely always expect a Mando to always want to have as much of their armor be Beskar as possible. It makes sense that the covert has minimal pieces and mismatched plating because Beskar is in short supply at the moment. Hence, PI plates vary around the covert. I definitely don't know much about the wiring under the plates but I do know that chest displays are a feature seen on many characters. It's generally agreed that Fett's was a life system readout. I'd be sure that your wiring ideas make sense from a visual standpoint without the need to explain them. I always say that a backstory should never be needed to explain why something is the way that it is on your kit. If you can't look at it and see cohesiveness and Mandalorian aesthetics, it might need to go back to the drawing board. At an event, people aren't going to want to hear a backstory, they just want to take pictures with cool Mandos! Haha.
But as I was saying before, the chest plates and lack of a collar are what seem to be distinctive of the PI Era. There's a lot of freedom in regards to styling the rest of your plates though. Fenn and I are also both somewhat traditionalist when it comes to our Mandos. The more you can pull from existing source materials, the better! There's a lot of Mando goodness out there, it just depends on where you want to look and what Era you want to start with.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on May 09, 2021, 09:48 PM
I’ve been reading these last few comments over and over. I really appreciate everyone’s insight and connections – it’s everything I was hoping for when I first made this thread!
Design-wise, a lot of my hesitancy comes from how different Arco’s design is from my usual preferences. Usually, I enjoy having a design that blends in with background characters. But sometimes you see something and you just know that’s gonna be it. I saw the way Mando’s chrome armor reflected the light, bam, I gotta have it. I see the Amban rifle’s cool silhouette and spiky shock prongs, bam, gotta have it. I go on MandoCreator and see the legacy shoulders, bam, that’s the one. Guess I better get used to Arco looking like a protagonist rather than an NPC. :laugh: And now that I know the legacy shoulders I’m attached to don’t even exist in the EU, it’s probably good to full-on embrace custom designs, at least for the beskar! I still want to pull in canon/EU designs where I can. I’m interested in using the covert’s designs for any durasteel plates, and I noticed some reoccurring flight suit detail stitching between Din and Bo-Katan, so I’ll have to see what PI trends I can incorporate there.
Suddenly I realize I have a question. Is Arco a Child of the Watch, or part of mainstream Mando society, or a fringe traditionalist (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Mandalorians)?
Good question that I don’t have an answer to yet! I originally wanted to be a Child of the Watch, but realistically, I overheat easily and would like to take my helmet off while trooping… :laugh: I’ve been leaning towards the Old Mandalorians, or perhaps a descendant of a True Mandalorian remnant. The specifics are up in the air at the moment, but I imagine Arco was a member of some scattered tribe that was still in touch enough to know what happened between Mandalore and the empire, and still invested enough in Mandalore to hold a grudge about it. Whether she’s on her own or with a group now that she’s interacting with civilians as a tooka / narglatch breeder, I’m not sure! Maybe other Mandalorians would want to be more secretive and separate themselves once Arco went more public with that business.
I also considered being a New Mandalorian who wanted to get in touch with ancestral roots, and set off to find a tribe. Since you’re not allowed to wear armor to the Disney parks, I thought that would be a fun story / costume to wear to Batuu when I go someday. But maybe that’s a different character!
Got a materials question! I’ve been using Amazon’s sintra for my class project, and from what I’ve read it’s lower quality than the actual brandname stuff. After working with it, I’m not thrilled with how spongy it is and how it easily retains fingernail marks. I could use the leftovers for my armor, but I did some digging and found a proper sintra supplier near me, I think I’ll treat myself to the real thing! They have 4’x8’ sheets in black and white, and 3mm and 6mm (and 13mm and 19mm for that matter!). What’s wild is the white 3mm is cheaper than the Amazon version, AND you get four times as much… :O
So, question, is there any general preference for size or color on sintra?
Finals week is here! Afterwards I’m driving to the thrift store, Joann’s, and scrubs stores, and having an absolute party.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on May 10, 2021, 03:49 AM
Well, you are your own protagonist, so no shame in that! I know what you mean about blending in, though. I do that too.
You don't have to decide a backstory just yet if you don't know exactly what you want. The nice thing about Mandos, I think, is that as long as you're a Mando, that's good enough for them - us? Us.
I ask 'cause I like character creation discussions, sorry. :P For whatever it's worth, there's an enclave on Vlemoth Port (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Arumorut/Legends) that could serve as your clan, or at least a model of it. That's where Ravlin calls home.
Local plastic supply is almost always better. I think the preference here is white Sintra - easier to see what you're doing, takes color better. I've been told that a 2' x 4' sheet of Sintra will easily make a standard Boba, maybe even Jango. I think. That might be 4' x 8'. Someone can correct me.
Good luck with finals! Don't forget to check the local supermarkets for scrubs, too. Good hunting!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on May 11, 2021, 12:28 PM
You could probably make a full Jango on a 2'x4' sheet on PVC foam board but it would be cutting it close for sure. You would really need to tetris everything on there incredibly well to fit everything. 4'x4' sheet, no problem though.
Also....if you are looking for PVC foam boards - Sintra in a brand name of PVC foam board. I have done some testing and Celtec works just as well, if not performs better under pressure, while also being cheaper then Sintra.
Double also - PVC foam board has a secret. With how the plastic is fabricated, is has a cell structure, similar to how wood grains look. If the plastic is bent along the direction that the structure runs, the plastic will only bent under pressure. If the plastic is bent against the grain, it will snap in half.
Making making plates like your knee armor out of PVC foam board, make sure you cut the knees out of the plastic is that the structure of the plastic runs vertically and not horizontally (if that make sense)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: ValinKrai on May 13, 2021, 12:46 AM
Got a materials question! I’ve been using Amazon’s sintra for my class project, and from what I’ve read it’s lower quality than the actual brandname stuff. After working with it, I’m not thrilled with how spongy it is and how it easily retains fingernail marks. I could use the leftovers for my armor, but I did some digging and found a proper sintra supplier near me, I think I’ll treat myself to the real thing! They have 4’x8’ sheets in black and white, and 3mm and 6mm (and 13mm and 19mm for that matter!). What’s wild is the white 3mm is cheaper than the Amazon version, AND you get four times as much… :O
I got the 4'x8' from Regal Plastics here in KC in 6mm light grey and it's been working nice with a dremel to cut. I have tons of extra though, so hit me up if you wanted to try some. I'd be nervous about going any thicker, but if my memory of cons is correct, I didn't care for the look of thinner plates.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on May 18, 2021, 11:02 PM
Ravlin, I love character creation discussions too! I am having a trickier time here because I’m rather new to Star Wars, basically just The Mandalorian + TCW + Rebels + movies. There’s so much more EU to draw inspiration from that I barely know where to begin. I’m digging the look of the Arumorut settlement – looks like I may have to check out Friends Like These and learn more. I wonder what happened to them by the PI era…
Fenn, I had no idea about the grain structure of PVC board! That is very good to know going forward. The place I asked quotes from had Sintra and Komatex, not sure the difference performance-wise between the two, but I’m betting either is a good step up from Amazon.
Valin, great to have your input on 6mm plating – that’s what I’m trying to decide on! I suspect I’d like the look of 6mm, but 3mm may be more versatile for my uses, and cutting may be tricky as I don’t have a dremel. Good to hear about Regal Plastics as a Sintra source too. For reference, Polymershapes has white 4’x8’ sheets at $26/$57 for 3mm/6mm respectively. Meanwhile, Amazon has 2’x4’ 3mm sheets at $29, rip. :laugh: Good to go local!
So, here’s my thoughts on Sintra at the moment! Color-wise, white is cheaper, so unless black is better, I’ll probably go with white.
Size-wise I’m stuck with the 4’x8’, but between plates, trauma plates, throwing knives, and however many weapons I can build by layering Sintra, I’m sure I can figure out a use for a 4’x8’ sheet. The tricky decision is between 3mm and 6mm sheets. I would like more durable plates that can survive long-term, so I was considering 6mm. However, throwing knives and trauma plates may be best in 3mm, and reference-wise, beskar plates look quite thin:
(https://i.imgur.com/oWKwfZy.png)
In addition, if I’m going to have a broken durasteel plate with exposed wiring, I’ll probably want 3mm for two layers. But if it’s gonna be damaged to snot, I could use my crappy Amazon Sintra.
I’m leaning towards 3mm for its versatility with knives/trauma plates, but I’ll think on it a bit. Maybe I could get 3mm and reinforce it? Layer it to make 6mm wherever needed? I’ll be working on my cardboard plates first, so I still have time to decide!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on May 19, 2021, 08:03 AM
So as far as durability goes, I have 3mm plates and my kit has been through, probably, 58 troops if I recall correctly. Some of those have been cross country trips too. However, my next armor set will be cut from 6mm because I just happen to have two full sheets of it . :laugh:
Here (https://www.jpplus.com/sintra-bright-white-sheet) is where I send everyone for Sintra. It's $8 for a 2'x4' 3mm sheet. So two sheets would ship at about $32 with the shipping included. Explore your options and see what works best for you!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on May 20, 2021, 05:46 PM
Glad to hear the 3mm is durable! Seems things are pointing to 3mm for my kit at the moment.
Just realized I forgot to share this! Was using the airbrush for the class project last week and grabbed the candy gold to test out on that old chrome piece. This is the rushed piece where the black basecoat had orange peeled, so the chrome isn’t super great, this isn’t a perfect swatch by any means – I’ll have to redo it with a proper test piece when I figure out the orange peel.
A thin coat results in a light gold color, while multiple coats result in a deep yellow-orange – I may be able to use this one paint for both colors. It’s definitely got a subtle look compared to traditional orange or gold paints, it takes on some of the lighting qualities of the undercoat! I’m not thrilled with how the gold loses the gloss (the heavier orange coat is glossier) – I may see if a clearcoat gets its shine back. I was hoping to leave the detail colors unsealed to allow for natural weathering, but I guess we’ll see!
Different shades in different angles / lighting. That's what I was looking for! (https://i.imgur.com/PbENEzC.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/97yaZWP.jpg)
See how much glossier the orange is, though? I'll have to play with clearcoats and see what happens. (https://i.imgur.com/EiU0Uz6.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/iU0Lxiu.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/5xjhhon.jpg)
And here’s something I want to do on my helmet! Some details cut out and backed with mesh, for ventilation and hearing. Could get creative with it, using an iron heart or turn signal pattern. (https://i.imgur.com/jyavSmU.jpg)
In some lightings, they do look pretty close in color. I've been considering getting the candy orange and seeing if that looks significantly different in comparison.
Gonna glue together a proper test piece, but it’s rainy and humid out, so not sure how well it’ll go if it was orange peeling on a nice day!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on May 22, 2021, 11:27 PM
I made a first draft of the chest plate and have some thoughts… one: this is going to be harder than I thought, two: I’m gonna need a lot more cardboard!
It’s nice to have a tangible version to work with, and from what I see here, I think a variation of Paz’s plate should work! But it’s still stressful to see the issues...
I’d like the plate to be snug to me the way it is in the show, but as you can see, it is floating. I may have to heat form the final version, but with the chrome paint, you’ll be able to see the bends easier and it may be tricky to make the heat forming symmetrical. I’ll try different measurements and see what happens.
I’m quite concerned about this CRL:
Quote
Armor must be fitted correctly depending on armor/body type. It must be of adequate size in proportion to your chest area. The chest plate should not exceed 1” / 3cm beyond the outside edge of the backplate at maximum.
In my case, the last sentence contradicts the first two — if the back and chest plates are form-fitting, the chest plate will have to be wider than my backplate by at least 2”-3” on each side. Are the CRLs lenient in cases such as this?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on May 23, 2021, 12:31 AM
That would be a question to put to the APP Team Q&A.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on May 26, 2021, 06:29 PM
Fabric swatches!! Featuring my super weird paint swatch, because I haven’t made a proper one yet. :laugh: Aside from the pleather, these fabrics are from Joann’s.
Accessories:
Here are two faux leathers. The pleather is something I already have, I’d like to use it up. However, the reverse side is not very presentable…. I’ll have to consider how realistic I can make this look. The suede is sooooooft, I can’t stop petting it! I may like to use it for something. It would be nice as a cape, but it doesn’t seem to tatter well. It’d make real comfortable gloves, but is it too thin?
(https://i.imgur.com/jHVBB0L.jpg)
Sash:
Tragedy: the yellow hopsack linen I wanted is discontinued! Thankfully, they have it in natural, so it can be dyed. Look how cool that texture is, and it frays real nicely!
(https://i.imgur.com/n1XIVHm.jpg)
Flak vest:
Here’s three potential shades of duck cloth, and a hex-embossed fabric for detail paneling. The duck cloth is breathable, and although it doesn’t absorb water quickly, it’s not completely waterproof – hopefully that means it won’t get too hot. The hex fabric is very stretchy one way and slightly stretchy another way. The very-stretchy way completely warps the pattern when stretched, and the slightly-stretchy way keeps the pattern but loses some of its shine. I was thinking I could have vertical strips of this fabric along the princess seams to allow for a bit more flexibility than pure duck cloth, but it may look better if they are sewn on top.
(https://i.imgur.com/gmrsyaG.jpg)
Tomorrow is thrifting day – let’s see what I can find in the way of gloves, belts, and boots!
Questions!
1. When buying boots/gloves/belts from the thrift store, do I need to be mindful of the color, or can they be painted/dyed? 2. Regarding this CRL:
Quote
Gloves must be made of a substantial sturdy material.
I'm not sure what's considered "substantial". Would I be able to sew my own gloves from the suede with pleather detail panels?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on May 26, 2021, 11:32 PM
You can probably recolor boots with shoe polish, and maybe other types of leather. Google is your friend!
I think the "substantial fabric" guideline probably comes from the same place as the "quality" guideline. I would assume surgical gloves don't work, for example, but I think thin tactical or detailed suede will likely work.
I anticipate the venerable Kurshi and/or the esteemed Fenn will confirm or refute. The gloves probably don't have to be super-thick, but shouldn't rip when you shake hands.
If you're new to Star Wars, don't be intimidated but don't bite off more than you can chew, either. I highly recommend just the original 3 films (then, later, the prequels) for tone and style, then the Mandalorian for some more everyman perspectives (which you've done). If you're a reader, Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy is the closest thing to a must-read I've ever seen.
However, there's no Mandalorians in there! I know Jango Fett: Open Seasons has some good Mando stuff, and the Republic Commando books have some good stuff, but I don't know much about other older EU Mando sources.
Excellent progress, keep it up!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on May 28, 2021, 12:04 AM
Thanks for the insights and EU suggestions, Ravlin! I hadn’t heard of Heir to the Empire, and looking it up, it has Thrawn! Loved him in Rebels, and since it’s a must-read I better add it to my reading list.
After six thrift stores, here’s my haul!
(https://i.imgur.com/yFrNyry.jpg)
…I tried on soooo many boots and none fit. Finally found these hefty steel-toed shoes in the last store. Looks like I’ll have to learn how to make spats! And figure out what to do with that embossed Sketchers logo, oh boy…
I wasn’t planning on a large sidearm, but I was very excited about that toy gun and how nicely it fit our aesthetic. When I got home and went to look up the model, what do I see? LucasFilm – go figure! Turns out this is the 2004 Hasbro General Grievous blaster, a DT-57 (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/DT-57_%22Annihilator%22_blaster), the very model that Obi-Wan called “so uncivilized”! I cleaned out the soda that was spilled in the battery compartment, changed the batteries, and…
http://i.imgur.com/XJhk3Oj.mp4
Pew pew!! What a neat $2 find! I hope I can keep the glowy bits, but I understand if they look toyish.
Nobody was selling gloves, and the gardening gloves at the hardware store were rather inflexible for my liking. My russ says the “substantial sturdy material” CRL was more about things like latex or kitchen gloves, etc., and that making mine should be fine (Did I tell you guys I finally learned where my clan was hiding?! Turns out I’m not alone in KC!). Let’s hope that I can manage to make these gloves, because that material would be cozy!
Looking at the belts… I may just make my own. I want to have a nice buckle with a Mythosaur anyway!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on May 28, 2021, 12:20 AM
I anticipate the venerable Kurshi and/or the esteemed Fenn will confirm or refute.
You're too kind! Haha. But thank you!
So yes! Ravlin is correct here. The "substantial" idea allows for plenty of options. One interesting thing to note is is Boba gloves can be made from little more than military parade/dress gloves with some padded fabric sewn on the fingers and back of the hands. My gloves for my current WIP kit are these: (https://i.imgur.com/1MdBXoT.jpg)
These Protector style gloves are cotton and quite thin. Whereas for my other kit, I have leather Kobalt brand gloves.
When it comes to your armor sizing for Post Imperial chest plates, if you're going for a Paz style, the App Team wants it to be a close variation of his styling. His chest armor differs from Din's since it wraps around the side of his ribs instead of being a single, centered chest plate. I believe that this is what they're talking about when they mention the 3" ruling. However, since I'm still getting used to this new style of plates, I have many questions come up that I'm not 100% sure on. So my suggestion would be to ask it in the Q&A section and include your picture. There's several really knowledgeable people on that team that can give you better insight and let you know if you need to adjust anything!
I may be late on this too, but when thrift shopping, get what you like and what looks good. I have an extra pair or two of gloves and shoes/boots because you never know when one will wear out. Plus, one may be more comfortable than the other. You can always list extras in the one time sales thread too.
I tend to wait until I find stuff in the colors that I like before buying. For my stuff, I prefer brown leather shades over black, so I can't really lighten black stuff anyway! :laugh:
I also really suggest looking into http://shopgoodwill.com for cool finds. That's where I found my boots for my kit! (https://i.imgur.com/3mglCzH.jpg)
I use a similar blaster for troops where I don't want to lug my super heavy and realistic carbine. I have an E-5 that I've repainted and added LEDs to. (https://i.imgur.com/FICAgWu.jpg) Both of these have been repainted since this picture.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on May 28, 2021, 01:18 AM
Son of a gun, I used to have one of those DT-57s! No clue what happened to it.
It doesn't just have Thrawn, Zahn CREATED him! I know it's a cliche, but I think original Thrawn is much better. To be fair, in the books, he has Noghri, Captain Pellaeon, and [SPOILERS REDACTED]. Also, the protagonists...well, it's Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, and Lando, so they're better in my opinion than the kid-friendly bunch in the show. (I don't like "Rebels", sorry. As such, my opinion is biased, and you should take it with a whole shaker of salt, and draw your own conclusions.)
I'm searching for boots myself. As for the embossed logo, my first thought on my options was sanding - I don't know if that'll work, though. You could probably cover it with a small piece of similar leather.
For gloves, I like brown jersey gardening gloves. They're cheap, cotton, and comfy. But making your own from suede would be SO cool! Not to mention they're guaranteed to fit. Very important. Can't wait to see what you come up with!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on May 28, 2021, 03:56 AM
To me, any Zahn book is a goldmine. He's an incredible author and a super nice guy. The original Thrawn trilogy of Heir to the Empire, Dark Forces Rising and Last Command are so good. They were rewritten to bring Thrawn's history back into Canon to fit with rebels and that Thrawn trilogy is a must read as well.
A couple of Vode and I with Zahn. (https://i.imgur.com/LU1p3ny.jpg)
To me, the EU is still a valid storyline for most of the characters. When everything was nixed by Disney, we lost some really important history. But for Mando lore, you absolutely need to get ahold of the Republic Commando series by Karen Traviss. As the books progress, you get more and more Mando goodness.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arkham on May 29, 2021, 05:11 PM
( Hey, I'm in the background of that pic! )
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on May 31, 2021, 11:44 PM
There you are! Hahaha. I didn't notice that until now!! :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 02, 2021, 03:00 PM
Kurshi always has the best pictures! I gotta get my kit made so I can be in the background of pics too. :laugh:
I’ll be submitting the chestplate question to the app team, but I think I’ll do at least one or two revisions on my design first -- I’m sure I can narrow the width a bit.
I had an eventful shopping day! I ordered some dark brown scrubs, which should be here next week. I also got more of that faux suede to make gloves… and a copy of Hard Contact! Gotta get me that mando lore.
I also made a duct tape pattern for the gloves, but I have to wait till tomorrow to go to the library and use their sewing machine, boo. Hopefully it goes well!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Jun 02, 2021, 03:44 PM
Nice! The second book really starts to delve into the lore a bit deeper, but you can't start the second before reading the first. I hope you like it!!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 03, 2021, 08:16 PM
Enjoying the book so far!
Turns out the library’s makerspace is closed, so no sewing machine for me today, boo.
So, new thoughts! I’ve been re-watching Rebels and whenever Sabine’s S2 armor is on screen, the flight suit and helmet always grab my attention:
(https://i.imgur.com/oOgqwFb.png)
I really dig the beiges, grays, oranges, and reds -- they seem simultaneously flashy and mild in a way I like. Gold/yellow is traditionally “my color”, so I kind of took it as a given that I’d have chrome with gold accents, but maybe I’d like to play with the color scheme more? Spaz Stix has some other interesting candy paints that can layer on top of the chrome – I have the gold, but they also have a root beer and an orange that I like, and a red and yellow if I needed more variety.
Here’s some internet swatches of the chrome / candy root beer / candy gold / candy orange, and something I threw together. I’m building soft parts before my armor, so there’s plenty of time to decide on colors and designs, so I won’t worry too much for now!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 16, 2021, 02:12 PM
I found out Timothy Zahn is coming to my local comicon, and because of you guys, I know why that’s a big deal! ;D I'm not sure if I'll be going to big gatherings like cons this year, but if I do, I'll have to drop by.
I’ve spent the past few days working on some test pieces to get the feel for sintra. This ended up being a great idea, because I’m learning a lot! I’d love to hear your guys’ tips on what I could be doing differently.
I made two versions to practice making the ridges I’ll have on my armor: One where the ridge is cut from one piece, and another where it is cut from two pieces. Even though making the ridges from multiple pieces would save on sintra, I found that having it be made of one piece results in a more consistent leveling and a lot less work overall -- bondo seems to cause problems, so the less bondo the better.
(https://i.imgur.com/h6SdcgQ.jpg)
When forming the plate on the left, I first tried heating the plate evenly, flipping and running the heat gun evenly across the plate until it reached the floppy stage. However, it quickly warped and curled into a wavy shape! I tried to flatten it with a ruler and ended up with that indent I had to sand out. It took a lot of finagling to get it to a lightly curved shape. Not only that, but the edges along the bottom curled up so dramatically I had to cut it away – accidentally cutting a bit too much. Perhaps it would have been better to sand it, even though that would take much longer?
For the plate on the right, I heated it much less – focusing on small vertical sections and slowly bending it to shape. It turned out much better with no significant curling!
For glue, I used cyanoacrylate super glue. It sets quickly and makes a strong bond, but it ran, resulting in a drip I had to sand off. Throw some bondo in the cracks and on the sides, and we have the basic shapes!
(https://i.imgur.com/ujgKqIz.jpg)
One thing I’m having trouble with is how the edges of the sintra turn fuzzy, like you can see here. I’m on several bondo/primer rounds (though these pics are before primer) and it’s still a bit fuzzy.
(https://i.imgur.com/paL5cmp.jpg)
Another problem is how the line where the plates meet is still showing through.
(https://i.imgur.com/b3WJXHN.jpg)
And the bondo is cracking, ahh!
(https://i.imgur.com/xDdwv23.jpg)
Are there any tips for these, or does it just take more rounds of filler primer and sanding?
Aside from these issues, it’s getting pretty smooth! Hopefully I’ll be ready for the black basecoat soon, though that’s the part I’m most worried about – I’ve had bad orange peeling with it before…
(https://i.imgur.com/aCkEip5.jpg)
Smoooooth! Except for those bondo pockmarks to the left that never seem to fill, boooo.
(Edit -- fixed broken image link)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Jun 16, 2021, 03:54 PM
Great trial and error sessions. That's the way to do it!
What's your finest grit you're using for the edges when it comes to your sandpaper. Some SUPER fine grit stuff works best there!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 16, 2021, 04:05 PM
I used 100CW when I was sanding the chunks of bondo down, but right now I'm using 1000CW. I also have a sheet of 2000CW I could break out! I'm dry sanding right now and am wiping away the dust with a wet cloth before painting another coat of filler primer. Should I be looking into wet sanding?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jun 16, 2021, 04:28 PM
Break out the 2000! Also try sanding in circles if you haven't. It helps even things out.
I've never done wet sanding, so I can't answer that. I wonder if the wet rag is interfering...? I use a dry rag, but my experience up until very recently was only with wood, so you keep water as far away as possible. If a wet rag's better for Sintra, then don't listen to me! I'm just highlighting variables that may or may not change things.
Those pieces look GOOD! I haven't tried heating my Sintra yet, but I'll take your advice and heat in smaller vertical patches.
Keep it up!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 16, 2021, 05:19 PM
I haven't tried heating my Sintra yet, but I'll take your advice and heat in smaller vertical patches.
I SWEAR I remember reading that you want to heat the whole thing to the floppy stage so you can form it around yourself! But I had such a bad time of it, it warped into weird shapes and hardened so fast. Maybe I was supposed to give it more heat and it would have flattened out eventually? It may be worth trying again, but if it's for simple curves and angular lines, I think I’d just stick with the little-bit-at-a-time method that I did on the second plate – it went much more smoothly! It’s worth noting that this is the crappy Amazon sintra, I wouldn’t be surprised if the proper brandname stuff ended up behaving better. Does anyone have more experience with this kind of thing?
I heard about wet sanding for sintra and 3D prints, but I can't help but wonder if the moisture from the wet rag is responsible for the bondo cracking in the seam? The wet rag is a great way to get dust off before the next round of paint, but it may not be worth it if that's why it's cracking.
I bet sanding in circles will even it out better! I'll give it a shot on the next round.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Jun 16, 2021, 11:37 PM
I'd use the 2000 and I have never had to wet sand anything so far. I would also guess that the moisture could be interfering with the bondo as well. But bondo is not something that adds structure, it will crack when the material it's applied to flexes. You may need to chip it all out.
I would recommend looking into a stick of JBWeld or Quiksteel to help with your cracking. This stuff is a two part putty that comes in a long roll. You just take a knife and cut a small "cinnamon roll" style slice and mix the two parts together. There is one part on the outside and another of a different color in the middle.
Once you get it mixed well, you'll feel it warm up a bit. It's ready! Make a little "snake" roll and mash it where your two plates or different materials meet. You can wet your finger and smooth it just like you would a bead of caulk. Then let it cure and then bondo the imperfections after that. I can almost guarantee you won't have any cracks then!
Here's my gauntlets from way back when. Sorry for the image dump!
As for your heating method, I prefer the little bit at a time method. I feel like I have more control over it that way. And you're right, heating everything usually results in weird curls and ripples. Go nice and slow and you'll have better results!
Hope this helps. :)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jun 17, 2021, 02:40 PM
JBWeld is amazing. It also smells a bit, I think, so ventilate the area. Also wear gloves if you can - I believe it can be a cumulative toxin (takes years, but still). Finally, a little goes a long way. A LOOOOONG way. And once it hardens, it is indestructible, and I am not exaggerating. Much.
Nice gauntlets, Kurshi!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 17, 2021, 10:29 PM
Looks like I’ll be picking up some JB Weld! I have some disposable gloves, as well as a respirator coming in, so hopefully I’ll be good on the safety front. As far as applying it, is it sandable, or should I take care to make sure it looks like a finished edge before it cures? I see several types of JB Weld at Lowe’s, none of which look particularly cinnamon-roll-y – which one should I be getting?
I really do not want to chip the bondo out after all the sanding I’ve done! :laugh: So I believe I’ll be making a third test piece instead. Could always use the extra practice, and more test pieces for swatches / weathering practice.
I’m still bummed I have to do heavy weathering, but the positive side is if the bondo cracks, I could settle some grime in the seams to cover it. I do have my mind on a future “posh/extravagant” kit, so it’s good to learn how to make clean plates anyway!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Rhue_Shofytt on Jun 17, 2021, 11:53 PM
Just out of curiosity- why do you have to do heavy weathering? Unless you have some pieces already finished, you should be able to do any level of weathering you want, as long as it's consistently applied to all your stuff.
For me personally, that's more on the "dirty, but fairly well maintained" end of the spectrum than "I like letting Jedis use my head as a bongo drum" :laugh:
Edit: I'm dumb and forgot you were going for Beast Tamer brigade, which requires heavy weathering. If you were super invested, you could go for basic approval with the level of weathering you want, and then make new plates with damage for the brigade app?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 18, 2021, 12:14 AM
Apparently heavy weathering is something for the Beast Tamer BRLs! As a narglatch/tooka/strill breeder it'll be a blast to tell a story through the weathering, but I LOVE the chrome beskar look, so I really hope I don't have to go so heavy on those plates that it dulls the shine. :-X I'm plenty ok with some grime in the recessed areas or a mild blackwash, and I'm happy to beat the tar outta my durasteel plates, but I'd rather not go for the "just got out of a fight with a mudhorn" look if I can help it. :laugh: I'm with you on the "dirty, but fairly well maintained" look -- I'm hoping I can get away with "loves maintaining and respecting my armor but with this many cats I can't keep up with repainting/sewing all these scratch marks"!
Edit: That's a good idea! I'd like to avoid completely remaking things when I can help it, so I'm trying to get the correct level the first time if I can. However, I think I can add more grime after OM if needed for BRLs, so I might see how heavy I like the chrome weathered and go for OM with that!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jun 18, 2021, 06:09 AM
JB Weld is...less than sandable. It's theoretically possible, but to make noticeable progress you would likely need power tools with a VERY robust paper or wheel. It is, after all, the literal chemical equivalent of welding. Try to get it as clean as possible.
I'm most familiar with the tubes of the stuff - never actually seen a cinnamon roll of it, but I've seen other epoxies in rolls. I think any 2-part epoxy would probably do the job. Maybe even just a thin coating of superglue over top of it...? If you go with JB Weld - and it's probably not a bad idea to have some on hand, anyway - I recommend the regular stuff that doesn't say anything extra on the package. You could try the KwikWeld if you want something...well, quicker. I think the regular stuff cures over 24 hours.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Sylvilagus on Jun 18, 2021, 02:02 PM
Apoxie Sculpt. It's almost the same thing as JB Weld, but it sands beautifully and I'm told it adheres well to Sintra. I get mine off Etsy for $25 for 1 pound, so it's costly but worth it. Easy to work with, can be used bare handed, and a little goes a long way. Seriously, I mix it up a pea-sized amount at a time and that always goes further than I'm expecting it to. Takes about a day to cure fully and you can smooth it out with water.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 20, 2021, 11:18 PM
Thanks for the inputs! Given JB Weld’s less-sandable qualities, I may go for Apoxie Sculpt – plus, I wonder if I could use Apoxie Sculpt to make my signet with?
Also, I’ve been sewing the gloves and it’s pretty exciting to make something tangible! I suppose I should start a soft parts WIP and post some progress pics.
I have a couple noob questions about the priming process:
(https://i.imgur.com/Yf9ruD4.jpg)
Regarding this plate, it feels very smooth. However, visually it has these areas of visual texture and lighter color. Will the actual paint layer go on smoothly? In addition, I have these small spots where the sintra shows through. Will it be OK to put the paint over it, or should the whole plate have a solid layer of primer?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Jun 21, 2021, 02:16 AM
As for the JBWeld and Quiksteel, I've never had a problem sanding. It takes a little effort, but seems to sand okay for me. However, I agree that the more smooth you can get it before it cures, the better!
Here (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003S2E4UE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_SXM8N7GKNVBGA9S2M2Y2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1) is a link to the JB Weld and here (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013K01TQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_S89BNY1QFTJDR8SPQAZ7) is a link to Quiksteel. Apoxie Sculpt is another popular one as well as Smooth On's Free Form Air. To be honest, I've never used gloves or worked with them in a ventilated area, but that doesn't mean you should follow my example. :laugh:
As far as your priming goes, it's best to do several small sessions to fully get everything covered. If you still see white, do another session until it's uniform and even. The reason for this is occasionally your paint will not look quite uniform over the entire surface. Areas with little or no primer might cause the topcoat to appear darker, lighter or a bit more dull, depending on the paint's properties.
I'd say take your time and hit it all again. Move across the surface in short quick burts to avoid running, give it 5 or 10 minutes (or read the can instructions actually for recoat times) and hit it again if you need to. A good primer layer sets up the rest of your paint for a successful application!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jun 21, 2021, 04:33 AM
As for the JBWeld and Quiksteel, I've never had a problem sanding. It takes a little effort, but seems to sand okay for me.
Fair enough. My experience comes from a project where I wanted it indestructible, and so globbed it on really thick and let it cure for 48-72 hours before testing with sandpaper. In retrospect, not the best test case. I'm willing to believe a lighter coating, more carefully applied, could be sanded.
Also, my JB Weld was a little old when I mixed it. Who knows what happens chemically with age.
I agree with Kurshi about the primer, too. Thin coats, all the way over, no holes unless you actually want weird texturing (it's a viable weathering technique, but probably not for projects like this). I'd give the primer a good long time to cure, too - overnight might be enough, but I personally like 24-48 hours.
I forget, did you already color-test your paint over your primer? The latter can have an effect on the tone, texture, sheen, brilliance, etc. of your topcoat. Every once in a great while I find a certain paint that just hates a certain primer, and sometimes I find a particular primer enhances a particular paint.
Safest bet is to use the same series from the same brand for both, but experimentation often yields surprising and satisfying results. Kinda like Mythbusters, except no explosions.
Hopefully.
"Remember, kids, the only difference between science and goofing around is writing it down."
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jun 22, 2021, 10:26 PM
Thank you for the links, Kurshi! My indecisive self always feels better knowing which exact version to buy. :laugh:
Thanks for the input guys, looks like I’ve got more priming/sanding to do. I usually wait 24h between sessions, so hopefully I’m good on that front. Man, doing a bigger plate is gonna take a month! My imperfect durasteel plates are gonna be a breeze in comparison.
Ravlin, I’ve definitely got some science to do regarding my paint and clearcoat combos! For the beskar plates, I am planning on layering: Rustoleum sandable primer via spray can -> Rustoleum gloss black via spray can -> Spaz Stix (or Alclad?) chrome via airbrush -> Alclad aqua gloss clearcoat via airbrush (to protect the chrome) -> misting of chrome via airbrush (to bring back the shine lost from the clearcoat) -> Spaz Stix candy color accents via airbrush. From my previously rushed (thus possibly inaccurate) experiments, the gloss black orange-peeled on a comparatively smooth primer layer, despite being the same brand. The Spaz Stix chrome was just a light dusty layer that adopted the texture of the coat it was on, and the candy gold was heavier but did the same. I'll need a good handful of spoon tests to properly see how they work, especially with the clearcoat.
When shopping in a new area today, I saw a hobby store and decided to drop in and see if they had any interesting paints. Their stock was low, but you know what?? They had EVERY single paint I’d been eyeing online – even Alclad! Now I have a nice charcuterie of colors. I just keep forgetting to buy spoons to sample them on. :laugh:
(https://i.imgur.com/VG7NUZp.jpg)
In other news, I decided to give wet sanding a try… and holy SMOKES, is it doing the trick! The picture isn't as clear as in person, but comparing the left (wet sanded) to the right (dry sanded)… not only does it get rid of the white discoloration, this matte primer is glossy now, and that’s with just a 1k grit. I wonder if the base coat orange-peels again, perhaps wet sanding will be the solution.
(https://i.imgur.com/HlPCUX2.jpg)
Still gotta go another round or two of priming/sanding with these. Durasteel is looking mighty inviting at this point. :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 02, 2021, 06:31 PM
I’m having weird motivation issues! I’m hopping between working on the practice pieces, the gloves, and remaking the chest plate pattern. Making good progress on each, but for some reason can’t bring myself to finish any of them.
….So with that in mind, how do you modify scrubs? :laugh: With all these half-finished things, I somehow want to get going on the flight suit. I know to remove logos and butt pockets, but are there any pockets I can keep? How do you store your phone / wallet / etc. in kit?
Perhaps that’s a better question for a soft part WIP thread. I better get that going!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Jul 11, 2021, 12:27 AM
In case this hasn't been answered in a soft parts thread, my simple answer for where I keep a phone, wallet and keys is in my kit box. I don't keep any of those things on me because I've found it's too much of a pain to take my gloves on and off to check my phone. :laugh: I usually stick a debit card and some cash in one of my pouches, though.
Though sewing is not my strong point, one thing to modify is the bagginess in the legs. You can flip them inside out, put them on and pin them where you have excess material. Then carefully take them off (trying not to stab yourself a bazillion times) and sew them. I suggest not cutting the extra material since it will be hidden anyway. That will leave room for you to tweak it later, should you need to.
And as far as pockets go, there's not many options available where you can keep them. Unless they're hidden by a kama or something, it's best to remove them.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 11, 2021, 11:48 PM
Great tip regarding the pins! I guess that's what safety pins are for. That sounds a lot more reliable than the method I was envisioning.
Hmm, the kit box may not be an option for me, since there's no merc presence / nowhere to store boxes at some of the cons I plan to attend. I usually just leave the house in full cosplay and get funny looks on the way to the event. :laugh: I was intending on putting my valuables in belt pouches, but the CRL says "no cell phone pouches are allowed on ammo belts", so... you can't store cell phones in your ammo pouches, I guess! I do plan on having a kama so there could be something to that, but ideally I'd like to be approvable without it, too. More to think about!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Jul 12, 2021, 02:15 AM
Great tip regarding the pins! I guess that's what safety pins are for. That sounds a lot more reliable than the method I was envisioning.
Hmm, the kit box may not be an option for me, since there's no merc presence / nowhere to store boxes at some of the cons I plan to attend. I usually just leave the house in full cosplay and get funny looks on the way to the event. :laugh: I was intending on putting my valuables in belt pouches, but the CRL says "no cell phone pouches are allowed on ammo belts", so... you can't store cell phones in your ammo pouches, I guess! I do plan on having a kama so there could be something to that, but ideally I'd like to be approvable without it, too. More to think about!
It isn’t so much that you can’t store your cell phone in a pouch on your belt. It’s that you can’t use a specifically designed off the shelf “cellphone pouch” that’s built for that specific item on your ammo/utility belt. What you need, then, is a military style belt pouch that’s large enough to hold your cell phone. As long as it’s not an actual cellphone pouch, you’re fine.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Jul 12, 2021, 06:01 AM
Hey vod! Sorry about the motivation issue :'( but don't get discouraged. I know you can do ;) your kit has been awesome so for!!! And I know it will continue to be amazing!! :porg2: about the storage, you could incorporate a soft or hard backpack to your kit to store your stuff.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Kurshi BeJahaal on Jul 12, 2021, 10:18 PM
Tramp's got it. You can use a larger dump pouch of some sort that would work just fine. If it's nylon, you'll want to make a plate of sintra to go over it to make it look less earth tactical. Look at the first order storm troopers to draw inspiration from them.
If it's leather, you should be fine. It just can't look like a cellphone holder. :)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 13, 2021, 12:52 AM
OH! Okay, I didn't realize "cell phone pouch" was an actual commercial thing. That CRL makes way more sense now. :laugh: Crisis averted! I'll plan for one of the pouches on my belt to hold my things. I'm thinking the whole belt will be handmade, so it should fit the aesthetic just fine.
Thanks for the encouragement, Triss! I'm setting a goal for doing something for at least 15 mins a day to keep myself on the project in one way or another.
Today's achievements: Got V3 of the chest plate mockup done, considered sending it off to the app team with my questions, talked myself out of it because why not try for V4 and/or V(infinity) first? Got a bit more sewing on the gloves done (which is crazy tedious by hand!), then started sketching out signet concepts, and then typed out details for my soft parts thread.
See what I mean about making progress, but not finishing anything?! Seriously, me, what's up with that? :laugh: If I don't at least have my soft parts WIP up by tomorrow, somebody pester me.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Jul 13, 2021, 03:08 AM
OH! Okay, I didn't realize "cell phone pouch" was an actual commercial thing. That CRL makes way more sense now. :laugh: Crisis averted! I'll plan for one of the pouches on my belt to hold my things. I'm thinking the whole belt will be handmade, so it should fit the aesthetic just fine.
Thanks for the encouragement, Triss! I'm setting a goal for doing something for at least 15 mins a day to keep myself on the project in one way or another.
Today's achievements: Got V3 of the chest plate mockup done, considered sending it off to the app team with my questions, talked myself out of it because why not try for V4 and/or V(infinity) first? Got a bit more sewing on the gloves done (which is crazy tedious by hand!), then started sketching out signet concepts, and then typed out details for my soft parts thread.
See what I mean about making progress, but not finishing anything?! Seriously, me, what's up with that? :laugh: If I don't at least have my soft parts WIP up by tomorrow, somebody pester me.
Yes, they are a thing. Here are a couple of examples of cellphone pouches:
It is these, and others by various manufacturers, that are not allowed by the CRLs.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Sylvilagus on Jul 15, 2021, 12:33 PM
Apparently my cell phone is exactly the same size as a magazine for a FAL, because it fits perfectly in an Austrian army-issue mag pouch.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 17, 2021, 01:44 AM
Ok! Those cell phone pouches will be no problem to avoid. Though I do love the idea of a mag pouch for a phone. :D
Good news everyone, I finally started my soft parts WIP thread (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=204271.0)! Now to sort through my progress photos and get the thread caught up.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 24, 2021, 10:54 PM
I’m working on the paint samples and it is not going smoothly…! Coated the spoons in primer, then after curing, sanded to 2000 grit. Yesterday I did the first coat of gloss black, taking care it was the right temp / humidity parameters, warmed up the can, did a tack layer, did a light layer on top of that, waited 15 minutes, and did one more light layer. Looked nice and glossy, until I checked it 24 hours after curing:
(https://i.imgur.com/tsvR0vZ.jpg)
Lots of little dots everywhere. Akkk. I did another layer today, we’ll see how that goes.
In easier news, me and my lack-of-art-skills are sketching up some concepts. Here are my thoughts for the defensive bite gauntlet on the right arm:
(https://i.imgur.com/CMky56T.jpg)
This would be larger than the offensive gauntlet, covering just about the full length of the forearm. The primary equipment on it would be the electrified bars running along its length. The visual details are diamond cutouts backed with metal mesh for ventilation, and some fur trim along the edges. I wanted to make the bars light up, perhaps by running EL wires through acrylic tubing and lightly painting it silver, but I can’t find the right bars for something like that. Since I have the tendency to give up due to perfectionism, it’s probably best I go for a standard, non-glowy version for now.
As for the attack gauntlet, I’m not sure! I know I’ll want a flamethrower and a grapple. I’ve been toying with the idea of functional buttons from an Arduino that type Mando’a onto a screen. But much like the electrified bars, I’m afraid I’ll go too into the weeds and get overwhelmed if I add that to my base approval kit. I’m thinking I’ll leave room for them in my base kit, then implement them after approval when I have less on my to-do list.
We recently bought a drill and a hand saw, which opens the possibility of scratch building these out of PVC pipe or sintra… Got plenty of research to do on that front!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 25, 2021, 11:43 PM
After 24 hours curing, the results of the second layer are in!
(https://i.imgur.com/bpQFh9Y.jpg)
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Gonna sand the texture down and try two things, a clearcoat on one and a third layer on the other. We'll see what happens. Folks from my clan have recommended Krylon Fusion instead of a primer and base coat, so I may check that out too.
I sure am glad that I'm doing all this concept work before the actual kit!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on Jul 26, 2021, 08:33 AM
A part of the textured aspect with your paint might just be the paint not wanting to bond to the type of plastic the spoon is made out of. It's a different type of plastic compared to the PVC foam board or ABS plastic that most Mando kits are made out of - our standard materials are a more porous material so they bond to paint easier compared to the spoon. Also, you might have applied your spray paint in too thick of layers so the fumes from deeper layers caused the cracked look as they tried to escape when the paint dried.
Just food for thought! :like:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 26, 2021, 09:11 PM
Thanks for the tips! I used primer on the spoon so I don't think it's a materials issue, but I went ahead and used thinner coats for my next layer. Now to wait and see how it dries.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jul 27, 2021, 12:31 AM
Did you sand the spoon before using the primer? I'm not exactly sure of the specifics, but I do know it can make a significant difference.
I think the fumes or not adhering can affect primer as well. Some materials just don't like paint, and I kind of think plastic spoons are made of one of them. Very little sticks to them anyway, sort of by design - I would actually guess it's somewhat hydrophobic.
I would highly recommend test pieces of the actual Sintra, or at least some old PVC pipe you've sanded. That's not to say you won't learn from painting other materials, I just think you'll learn more from the actual pieces.
Keep at it, though! Little tiny baby steps are the key to making progress. Every new fact you learn gives you more ammo for your end project.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 27, 2021, 11:34 PM
Ravlin, great to hear from you! :D
I did sand the spoons, as well as allow 24 hours cure time to air out the fumes for each layer, but no dice. When researching different chrome paints I kept seeing people sample them on spoons – the smooth surface and dome shape show off aspects of the colors really well – so I kind of assumed I was “supposed” to test on spoons. But you guys make great points, plus sintra will be much easier to sand. So, I’ve cut and shaped some sintra swatches to start priming once the weather gets paintable again. Between the weather and the paint cure time, all this waiting is driving me nuts!
Here’s the results of yesterday’s experiments. After sanding both back, I did a third layer of black on the left, and a layer of clearcoat on the right:
(https://i.imgur.com/6Gmf21b.jpg)
The left is a mix of layers 1 and 2, with a bit of wrinkling and pinholes. The right is the best yet, though it does show sanding scratches through.
Hopefully the paint does better with sintra, but these are nice to know for reference.
Aside from watching paint dry, I’ve been working on more chest plate mockups. I seem to be in a goldilocks situation right now, with V3 being on the large side, and V4 being a bit small. Still, I’m happier with each successive version, so it’s time well spent. I’ll have to rope somebody in to taking pics.
I’ve thoroughly washed my thrifted boots, so it’s about time for me to start on gaiters in my soft parts thread. I need to get back on my Mandalorian rewatch to get inspiration for soft parts designs!
I’ve also spent some time trying to alter a Din Djarin helmet from Thingiverse. Seems the free version of F360 doesn’t allow you to modify STL files the way I wanted, so I’m playing with Tinkercad. Modelling software doesn’t click very quickly for me, so to avoid getting overwhelmed, I’m setting my altering goals low: Cut out some designs and the keyholes for ventilation, and don’t go nuts! If I really want more customizations, I can do V2 later, but let’s just get that helmet made!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jul 28, 2021, 05:00 AM
Well, if the standard for chrome-like paint check is spoons, then it's spoons! As usual I'm coming from a generalist's perspective. You're doing way more research, which is good, because it's your kit! I'm confident your armor will look good - it sounds like you're doing all the prep work right.
A Goldilocks situation isn't the worst position to be in, since you have your upper and lower thresholds defined.
Learning new software can be a bear. You're approaching it right - although might I suggest "doodling" a simpler object to get a feel for the system? I found that building a footlocker (so, basically just a hollow cube) in SketchUp helped me figure out its features and limitations. Then again, my end goal was to actually build said footlocker out of plywood, so...your results may vary.
D'aww, thanks! It's always great to hear from you, too.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arkham on Jul 28, 2021, 11:01 AM
Are you using the same brands of paint across all of your different layers (Filler primer, primer, base coat, color coat)?
If not, that could be why you are getting those results.
Also, in my experience, it sometimes take about 72 hours for the paints to fully cure. So you could try extending your time between layer from 1 day to 3.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jul 30, 2021, 12:22 AM
I’m using Rustoleum for the primer and basecoat, and the basecoat’s the one that’s causing the problem! Spaz Stix is the color coat (both chrome + candy colors), but they are applied with an airbrush, so I don’t anticipate problems (my previous rushed experiments suggest they take on the qualities of the basecoat). I’ve considered using an airbrush primer and basecoat too, but from what I’ve read, Rustoleum gloss black is the preferred pick… Who knows, maybe my climate would deal with the airbrushed basecoat better. I’ll have to be mindful of the clearcoat too, since it will add yet another brand into the mix – chrome notoriously does NOT mix with clearcoats, but Alclad’s aqua gloss is the one that supposedly messes it up the least.
Aw maaan! Waiting three days between each layer will really test my patience. :laugh: It’ll be worth it if there’s no orange peel, though…
I’ve started to get the hang of Tinkercad after jumping straight in. Here’s my first draft of edits:
I cut out the keyslot entirely. The model has them closed, but I think I’ll just make open slots out of sintra.
I added cutouts to the cheeks near the ears, finally deciding on a half-diamond shape.
I cut out slots on the earcaps to help with ventilation and hearing. Perhaps I will add LEDs later?
I initially had mirrored half-diamond cutouts along the comb, but my clan suggested the overhanging cutouts won’t print well. Not only that, it may be counterproductive as far as cooling goes, as the fan’s airflow may leave the first vent it comes across rather than go the full length of the helmet. So, I removed them for now!
(https://i.imgur.com/HE6F2Oa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9Acw6VM.png)
Working on the model really hit home how much blank space is on the helmet -- I have options for paint designs! Perhaps some narglatch-y spike patterns along the back… I should see if there's a blank template I could start coloring.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Catra Veshok on Jul 30, 2021, 06:05 PM
What about the triangle on Din’s hand / various helmets?
Maybe someone else already answered this. But here's my two cents. I think the blue triangles on Din's hands are a reference to Avatar the Last Airbender, since Dave Filoni worked on that show before he was hired on for Clone Wars. There's also a clone who has a blue arrow on his helmet. It makes me think of the airbender tattoos. I don't know if there's a specific meaning for these in the Star Wars universe or for Mandos. But I wouldn't put it past Dave Filoni to come up with something. He seems to use shapes as motifs a lot. Like the triangles and circles in the World Between Worlds. And in our world, the triangle often means change or transformation, which is what Din's story is about. It's interesting that, along with his helmet, those hand guards are the only things he kept from his original set of armor. Anyway, now I'm rambling.
Your kit concept looks really cool! Excited to see it finished! One step at a time, right? (I have to keep telling myself that too.) Oya!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Jul 30, 2021, 07:14 PM
Hey Arco, I like the look of the helmet!! It's cool. I am excited to what colors and design your going to paint on it!! :porg2:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Jul 31, 2021, 03:28 AM
Whatever the reason for the blue triangles, it's the same shade of blue on the shoretrooper squad leader's armor. In-universe, that's likely at least part of the reason, given Din's shin armor and original shoulders are apparently repurposed shoretrooper armor.
Nice work on the helmet, Arco! I might recommend adding a strut or two in the visor between the mandibles - you can remove it later, but for printing, sanding, and painting it might be nice to have a little structure there so there's not as much flex.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Aug 08, 2021, 10:12 PM
I’m loving the triangle talk, it’s the question that still haunts me. :laugh: It's on Din's hand plates and on Boba's helmet, so surely there's some super special meaning and I'm not just hyper-fixating on an unimportant detail. I’ve been getting caught up on other SW media and whenever I see a triangle, I’m like
(https://i.imgflip.com/4qj5rr.png)
And great idea, Ravlin! I’ll go ahead and add a brace, considering I'll be hand-sanding my heart out.
Alrighty, so I’m having a bit of a helmet file conundrum!
I’ve been trying different free files. I like the one above, but nobody has made it, and the maker hasn’t tried printing it, so given my lack of experience I decided to look around for one that’s more tried-and-true. Of the other files, this one (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4401649/makes) is my favorite, but perhaps you can see the potential visor issue:
(https://i.imgur.com/MS9RMRN.png)
This is the model pictured next to one of the makes. It looks seamless from the front, but from the sides there is a noticeable gap since the cheeks jut forward from the brow. My ruus says that gap should be acceptable, but I’d like to minimize it if possible. Any tips, or should I just expect that gap if I use the file?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Aug 09, 2021, 12:25 AM
Y'know, now you mention it, the Sector Rangers in Star Wars have a golden triangle as part of their badge....
...and I think some astro droids also have some triangles somewhere on their domes. Honestly, I don't think there's anything special or symbolic about triangles in the Star Wars universe - it's just a design thing. Take Boba's helmet, for example - would those tiny detail triangles look better as circles? Squares? In my opinion, no, but then aesthetic design is largely subjective. Something something, triangles are second only to the golden ratio, something something graphic design something.
Tl;dr people like triangles, if you do too then super! If not, then super! You do you, you crazy zebu.
As far as the helmet gap is concerned, my first thought is backfilling the edge with a small Sintra panel. I saw that somewhere, maybe on one of the Rubie's conversion threads. You could use epoxy, perhaps, but you'd never be able to replace the visor. I hear that's a good thing to keep replaceable. Maybe a silicon rubber adhesive, if you're familiar with using it - creates a good seal and can be torn/broken off later with relative ease, but it can be messy.
I can't tell for sure on the angles, but I wonder if the mandibles on that helmet should be bent back to contact the visor. They don't seem to line up with the brim. Again, I might not be seeing the picture correctly.
I know very little about 3d-printing, but if it's not costly for you, I think I'd recommend test-printing the file you like. Someone's gotta do it first. Maybe it'll work if you scale it down for a test run? Resolution changes your result, though, and the strength of the plastic doesn't scale either. If it's at half-size, and half as thick, it'll be flimsier than the real one; half-size but full thickness and the inside proportions will be distorted, giving it too much strength for its size. Scale is one of the hardest things to get right, because things like gravity, tensile strength, and resilience just don't scale. Molecules of a given material are always the same size, unfortunately.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Aug 15, 2021, 11:51 PM
Yeah, I’ve long accepted that it’s probably just a boring triangle. :laugh: But it’s become my dumb joke / hill to be dramatic on whenever I see it. Surely it will have a meaning like jaig eyes someday…
Yes, it looks like the problem with the model is that the cheeks jut forward compared to the brow. I was wondering if it would be possible to heat form it and bend it closer, but there’s no way to know if that would make the problem worse without ruining the print. If I had a 3D printer, I’d love to do some test prints, or even play around with shrinking the cheek measurements to match the brow. But since I’ll be commissioning a clan member to print for me, I think I’ll have to take this version of the model for now.
I like the idea of filling it with a sintra panel! I think that may be the solution…
Although I'd prefer a free file, I've also considered purchasing a file. Great Ape Studio has a fantastic screen-accurate Din Djarin (https://www.etsy.com/listing/769899694/helmet-the-mandalorian-digital-3d-model?ref=shop_home_feat_1&bes=1) helmet, and I'm quite fond of Alter Ego Armory's The Architect (https://www.etsy.com/listing/835501177/the-architect-3d-printable-helmet?ref=shop_home_active_14&crt=1) and The Foreman (https://www.etsy.com/listing/894020537/the-foreman-3d-printable-helmet-inspired?ref=shop_home_active_3&crt=1) designs. Decisions are hard!
I made some sintra swatches, getting some extra practice with curves and beveled edges. After sanding the primer coat to a beautifully flat finish, I went ahead and did two layers of gloss black, and drumroll:
(https://i.imgur.com/wp9JdAM.jpg)
More orange peel! The audacity!!
Well, I’ve had it with the hours of sanding, delicate light spray coats, and three days of waiting between layers in hopes that the orange peel will decide not to show up. I’m bringing out the big guns.
(https://i.imgur.com/dO480XB.jpg)
It’s time to use car polish!
The idea is to use very fine sandpaper on the top color layer to gently wet sand away the texture, then bring the shine back with the compound. Ideally I’d have proper polishing equipment, but since I don’t, it’s likely some sanding scratches will show through the compound. For hand sanding, you go back and forth rather than in a circular motion, so if any scratches show through, it will look more like a “brushed aluminum” texture rather than chaotic swirls. Although I’d prefer a pure gloss look, I’m not opposed to “brushed beskar”!
Once you have a smooth surface, add the compound to a microfiber cloth and go nuts, pausing to wipe it away every so often. The result is quite nice! Here’s a before / after:
(https://i.imgur.com/WzxSuo7.jpg)
I noticed the compound results in a slightly lighter / milkier color than the original paint. It’s still clearly a gloss black though, and since the orange peel is gone, my guess is it will result in a clearer chrome layer despite the lighter color.
I’m pleased with the overall results, but it’s worth noting that it’s not a flawless finish. Since I didn’t have polishing or sanding tools, the sanding scratches still "show through" (as seen in the slight wavy texture at the edge of the reflection). That was with wet sanding 2k grit only. Also, when you sand through a layer of paint, it can result in problems. You can see it when sanding, but when polished, sometimes it goes away, other times it does not. The first piece here looked fine after it was polished, but the second one still shows the separate layers:
(https://i.imgur.com/8fw5nLG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QvPxSsY.jpg)
Interesting how that happens. It’s easier to sand through the edges, both because the sandpaper naturally curls around the edge, and also because heated sintra tends to curl upwards so the edge is raised a little. For my chrome sintra pieces, it’ll be very important to sand that as flat as I can. Maybe armor parties will be in session and I can borrow somebody’s palm sander?
I've read conflicting accounts on what to do after adding the compound. I'll try a layer or two of clearcoat for protection and see if that reacts well.
I’m dying to know what the chrome layer looks like on top of this finish. The weather needs to get better so I can paint!
Question: would the level of orange peel in the first image be acceptable for durasteel plates, or would I have to sand those flat, too?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Ravlin Todric on Aug 16, 2021, 02:18 PM
Whoa.
Well done.
Personal dumb jokes are cool, keep it! I wasn't trying to rain on your parade.
You're way above my pay grade with both the 3D-printing and the painting now, so I'll shut up for once and let more experienced Mandos weigh in. I like where your head's at, though, so keep at it.
Beautiful test pieces, though. Sintra seems to like that stuff, even if it textures up.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Aug 16, 2021, 02:47 PM
Su'cuy Arco, that's looking sick!! :like: The car polish gives it a beautiful gloss. :porg1:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Oct 09, 2021, 06:31 PM
I do like that architect helm, but still bit pricey. I'd say go with the free din.
Loving your project! :like:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 21, 2022, 07:06 PM
Thanks guys! :cookie:
Been a while! I thought I'd give an update on where I am.
My motivation has been rather scrambled -- I want to work on this project, but it's tough to bring myself to get started. My perfectionism is my main roadblock, but that shouldn't stop me from working on mockups at least. I still dream of running around in my kit, but I'm a bit concerned that this will end up in the "I'll do it later" pile of amazing project concepts that never get completed. I gotta get back into it.
When I left off, I was working on paint swatches. It's too cold to paint now, so I'll have to switch focus.
My short-term goals for the moment: Start on my scrubs. Be more active on the forums. Get back to my The Mandalorian rewatch for screenshots and inspiration!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Matchstick1021 on Jan 21, 2022, 09:30 PM
I understand hitting road blocks, one thing that helped me to overcome perfectionism was I reminded myself that star wars isn't a perfect galaxy. That is to say very little about star wars is 'perfect". The used and cobbled together look is everywhere in universe.
Just something that helped me! :cookie:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: EricL on Jan 22, 2022, 09:13 AM
I hit those same kind of roadblocks! It’s tough. But you’ve got a good plan to just start something. I recently finished tailoring my scrubs (mostly) and that had been the biggest kick in the pants so far to get me moving forward! Nothing motivates like a little success.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 24, 2022, 05:21 PM
I do need to take advantage of how grungy the Star Wars aesthetic is! I think I have it in my head that I need to make it perfect before weathering it, but I should really allow the weathering stage to cover the inevitable imperfections instead of obsessing.
The scrubs will be great to get done! My aspirations have bitten off more than my skill level can chew, so my first iteration will be just plain tailored scrubs with simple (remember, me: simple!) PI detail stitching. I'd love to make a full screen-accurate Din Djarin flight suit, but I need to allow myself the simple version to practice, or I'll forever be too intimidated to get started.
I have something exciting to share! As part of a belated family Christmas present, I got a giant cardboard box for mockups!
Also, the box contained a 3D printer! Ah, the possibilities...
(https://i.imgur.com/2zaAF0U.jpg)
Naturally, any PI kit needs a Mythosaur pendant (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5139223). Should be great practice for 3D print finishing!
I'll be printing the helmet and pulse rifle (and perhaps a gauntlet?), and I'll want those in PETG for durability, so I'll have to play around with PETG when that comes in.
I'm working on customizing TheBrokenNerd83's helmet file (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4401649) in the meantime. Perhaps I should start a helmet WIP thread. Or, an armor thread that includes the helmet? Honestly, I'm still not sure how I want to split my build across the forums.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Matchstick1021 on Jan 25, 2022, 12:35 PM
Honestly my entire build wip is only on my clans forum page. But depending on how active your clan is that might not be a great idea.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Second Son on Jan 25, 2022, 06:13 PM
Drop a WIP bomb on the clan page, Arco - it'll wake em up!
TBH one unified WIP thread seems like a decent plan, keeps eyes on and will draw more focused attention on the many aspects of your build. I've made a few WIP threads but I am mostly updating my main armor WIP at this point as the sub-items (helmet, gauntlets, soft kit) are more or less 'done' and I'm working on getting it all together as a unit. One thread seems like you have less things to keep track of, and then use the other boards to field directed questions about process etc.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 26, 2022, 10:12 PM
Oho! The new BoBF episode gave me some kit ideas! I posted my thoughts in the lounge, I'll probably avoid talking about them for a week or so in here to avoid spoiling people.
After too much struggle, I've customized the helmet file the way I wanted. Just gotta add a brace on the mandibles and read up on PETG, and I think I'm good to print a scale model. Anyone have sizing tips for people with glasses?
I'll start organizing a "hard parts" WIP thread to go along with my soft parts (maybe not on the dead clan page, but I'll be sure to spam our group chat!). Regarding separate WIPs, I think it's nice for the App team and people browsing for ideas, but when following a single build it's probably tricky to juggle them all. Perhaps I'll post separate threads with the complete build process when I go to apply.
Now, to go watch that episode again... :boba:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Noot Braska on Jan 27, 2022, 09:28 AM
i think im probably going to order a set of contacts honestly. youd have to have a somewhat oversized helmet to fit glases under if they dont already fit.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Jan 27, 2022, 09:32 AM
Glad to see you back at it Arco'thyel !!! Looking forward to seeing some progress ;D
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 27, 2022, 02:39 PM
i think im probably going to order a set of contacts honestly. youd have to have a somewhat oversized helmet to fit glases under if they dont already fit.
Jealous! I wish I could wear contacts, but I tried three brands and none of them fit -- they all kept sliding down and blurring my vision. I hope I'll be able to fit a helmet that's not too bobble-y.
Glad to see you back at it Arco'thyel !!! Looking forward to seeing some progress ;D
Oya Triss! I gotta get caught up on your thread and see what you've been up to!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 28, 2022, 10:41 AM
I need to stop perfectionism-procrastinating.
Vode, it is time. Pray for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/w1h0C3y.jpg)
"Hey guys, is it supposed to look like-"
(https://i.imgur.com/HAozf1B.jpg)
*Nyoooom*
(https://i.imgur.com/oXoxHHw.jpg)
Taking pics is hard when that print bed is flying!
As of just now, 13 hours in and 13% complete:
(https://i.imgur.com/8yS2JwE.jpg)
Got a bit of lift, but my clan doesn't seem too concerned...
(https://i.imgur.com/NHOw3fG.jpg)
Props to my clan for putting up with my helicopter parenting. "Guys, is my helmet OK?" "Guys, is it supposed to be doing this?" "Guys, is my helmet OK?" "Guys, the supports look scraggly, am I doomed?"
Anyway, more overly concerned pics to come, I'm sure. Hopefully by Monday afternoon I will have a bucket!
...Monday afternoon?? I have to worry for that long???
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Jan 28, 2022, 11:03 AM
:laugh: don't worry about it!! I'm sure It will turn out great!! :sabine:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 28, 2022, 11:14 AM
I can hear my Mom vacuuming near the printer. What if the vibrations jostle the print? I gotta go check- :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Jan 28, 2022, 02:31 PM
Su cuy'gar,
Saw your printer setup and the front mandible lift-up. Did you put any adhesive on the bed like spray or glue?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Jan 28, 2022, 03:43 PM
This is where tge fun begins ;D
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 28, 2022, 03:48 PM
Su'cuy vode!
I used Magigoo as recommended by someone in my clan, so hopefully that's helping.
Just checked again. The lift in the right mandible doesn't look any higher, but may have extended a mm or so? I noticed the rafts around the left mandible are peeling slightly. I put marks on the raft so I could keep track.
Even so, the print is making steady progress. Crossing my fingers!
My helmet: "I'll try lifting, that's a good trick!"
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Jan 28, 2022, 04:12 PM
By the looks of things, it may affect the look of your helmet. Lift off tends to cause other problems like the dreaded spaghetti on occasion. I think you have a similar glass bed as I do from Creality. I use an Ender 3 Pro with PLA, personally. I had lift off on my helmet the first time around because there was no adhesive in one section. With my set up, I use an Elmer's glue stick, though this could change with PETG. The glue leaves a residue, but it can be removed with acetone.
What matters is if you are feeling good about it, really. No matter what, nice work!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 28, 2022, 07:04 PM
Thanks for the insight! I'll be sure to keep a close eye on it. The lift seems to be unchanged at the moment. I've been reading up on it, I have the fan set at 50% when in hindsight it could be lower or off on PETG for better durability and adhesion. Perhaps more layers on the brim will help in the future, too. Definitely glad I went with the brim instead of the skirt!
If the print's warped a little, I could certainly add sintra to even it out -- I plan on doing so with the visor gap, anyway. I'm also looking into XTC-3D or other resins for strength. Lots to consider!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Jan 28, 2022, 09:34 PM
I had nothing but problems with the stock glass bed on my Creality printer. Glue stick, hairspray; I just could not get a print to adhere well. Got the magnetic PEI bed and it all went away. I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 29, 2022, 01:11 AM
I'll have to check that out -- I sure wasn't impressed when one of my very first prints removed a bit of the textured topcoat from the stock bed!
24 hours in, 25% complete. Slow and steady. The warping has changed very slightly in the last 7 hours, so perhaps it's slowed down?
Good night helmet, you're doing great. Hang in there and I'll see you in the morning!
(https://i.imgur.com/U5lHpnl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q747uzW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CNOWCEr.jpg)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Jan 29, 2022, 09:02 AM
Starting to look like a mando :jango:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 29, 2022, 10:50 AM
Yes! So surreal to watch it take shape!
Good morning! No disasters overnight, so it's time for upper earcaps!
(https://i.imgur.com/41fN9mX.jpg)
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Jan 29, 2022, 11:52 AM
This is going to be beautiful once it's finished.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Jan 29, 2022, 10:04 PM
As long as the print has a large enough footprint, you can lose adhesion in a few spots and it’ll still finish printing ok. You’ll have to do some work fixing it in post, though. Often, that kind of warping happens when your print cools too much between layers; try turning the print head cooling fans down (or off entirely). Also make sure the ambient temperature in the room is decent; if the room is too cold or there’s an A/C vent blowing directly on the printer, it can affect the way the layers cool or adhere.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 30, 2022, 12:08 PM
As long as the print has a large enough footprint, you can lose adhesion in a few spots and it’ll still finish printing ok. You’ll have to do some work fixing it in post, though. Often, that kind of warping happens when your print cools too much between layers; try turning the print head cooling fans down (or off entirely). Also make sure the ambient temperature in the room is decent; if the room is too cold or there’s an A/C vent blowing directly on the printer, it can affect the way the layers cool or adhere.
This is reassuring! It's only lifting in the front, looks good elsewhere. As a beginner, I don't mind fixing some things in post, so long as it prints. :) It probably doesn't help the ambient temperature when I excitedly stuff my face next to the print. For my next print, I'll try lowering the fan speed to 0. It is at 50 for this one. Part of me wishes I'd done even more research, but it's probably a good thing I jumped in instead of waiting for things to be perfect. I need to start learning by doing and getting things done!
(https://i.imgur.com/X9L8SkJ.jpg)
What a fine morning to not have spaghetti! 70% down!
Starting to wish I'd oriented the print differently. I'm getting a crick in my neck.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 30, 2022, 06:42 PM
Bad news, vode. It started to delaminate. :(
(https://i.imgur.com/R3j5HHv.jpg)
I changed some settings: Turned the fan completely off, upped nozzle temp to max for PETG (250C), lowered the speed to 85%, and raised the flow to 110%. I turned on a space heater in the room and made a panic box: a cardboard box hastily lined with tinfoil. But now that I have it, I'm hesitant to put it on, I want to be able to check how it's going...
The good news is, while I was busy with the box, the settings seemed to have helped. It looks like it's starting to recover:
(https://i.imgur.com/AKby4ZX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hghum5h.jpg)
My newbie self is definitely open to suggestions.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Jan 30, 2022, 08:47 PM
If it hasn’t completely failed, let it keep going. You can repair minor delamination with resin and (if necessary) fiberglass. Bondo or apoxie sculpt can be used to clean up any visible scarring in post.
If you do end up with a complete fail, saw it off above the brow line and just print the dome separately.
This is a *very* ambitious print for someone new to 3d printing; you should be proud of getting this far. I’m working on my gauntlets and have had a few failures so far.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 30, 2022, 09:05 PM
Thank you very much for the input and encouragement! This is certainly a learning process.
I let it keep going and I'm glad I didn't bail. Feeling a lot better about it now. Crisis semi-averted!
(https://i.imgur.com/JA7awo2.jpg)
Bonus weird line where I accidentally unplugged the printer instead of my laptop and had another panic moment. :laugh: Today's a day of learning it seems! I noticed I could see the infill lines from the outside, so I lowered the flow to 105% and raised the speed to 95% (keeping the raised nozzle temperature and space heater) to see what happens. Learning by doing! I welcome anyone's insights.
I was considering resin and fiberglass earlier, but it's a necessity now. I'll have to start researching. If anyone has favorite brands, let me know!
When the print finished, I was looking forward to immediately shoving it on my head, but now I'm wondering if it will unwind like a slinky. Time will tell!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Jan 30, 2022, 09:19 PM
Did you dry your filament? It’s usually ok out of the box, but if it sits around in a humid environment, it can get wonky surprisingly quickly. I actually had some filament showing signs of too much humidity straight out of a sealed package, and I use PLA which is supposed to be much more resistant to moisture absorption than PETG or ABS (I think. Not sure). You also may be printing too fast; those delaminated strings on the inside look like the print head pulled them loose before they fully adhered to the layer beneath. I usually don’t go above 50mm/s on my prints, and go as low as 25 on high-detail prints.
Fair warning: I am no expert; I only got my first printer back in Nov, so the only advice or troubleshooting I can offer is the stuff I’ve already screwed up at least once.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 30, 2022, 10:15 PM
I didn't dry it, though it was brand new from the box, vacuum-sealed with the silica packet. It's Overture brand, which is supposedly not bad (I had someone in Microcenter suggest I get that instead of the Inland I had in my cart). I'll have to look into signs of waterlogged filament!
The speed was set at 50mm/s, which is the max recommended for PETG. I adjusted it to 85% when I noticed the delamination, then bumped it up to 95% once it had a solid foundation. Good to know that this could be it! I'll have my default be slower from now on.
I noticed that this new section printing is a lot shinier than the parts below it. Perhaps it's more durable? I'm certainly adjusting my settings from here on out!
Thanks a bunch for your input, Celtkhan. You've given me great tips and topics to look into!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Jan 30, 2022, 10:17 PM
Another option for repairing ABS, is to use Plastruct, Ambrood Pro Weld, or some other brand of liquid Plastic welder and some scrap ABS filament.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Jan 31, 2022, 09:57 AM
Stringing is sort of normal for PETG from what I remember. Temperature, moisture, and retraction can cause it. Finding the balancing point is a matter of dialing settings in. For my PLA pieces, I got significant stringing at higher temperatures. So, dropping the temperature helped the stringing issue for me. Temp and retraction are the two biggest settings you can change to avoid stringing. Too much retraction equals potential jams and too little makes a mess. Same with temp: Too low it becomes inconsistent and too high becomes fluidic. There is also a combining setting called "Within infil" which helps reduce stringing in Cura.
Infil lines are completely normal. The only way to get rid of those completely is to lower the layer height. However, you will still have printer lines to some degree. I fill those in with a combination of the following:
1. Rustoleum sandable printer over the helmet. Ensure the helmet is dust-free. 2. I follow this with 300-400 grit sandpaper to smooth the layer. 3. Bondo glazing putty over the visible printer lines. The top of the helmet will be the most obvious section with lines. 4. Following step 3 with light passes of 160-200 grit to smooth the putty (This varies on how much you apply). Then 300-400 grits again in lighter passes.
I will repeat these steps until I have the desired surface and no printer lines are left. I know people use higher grits in step 2. When you are standing this stuff, wear a mask/respirator. (I know I am being *that guy* but this stuff is not easy on the lungs. Especially fiberglass). Personally, I leave the imperfections in my prints since they will hopefully catch my weathering paints.
Helmet is looking good though. Cannot wait to see that thing in one piece!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Jan 31, 2022, 12:39 PM
Good stuff! I don't mind stringing as much as delamination. I've got all those materials, though I may need to check my respirator for vapor protection. Never done fiberglass before!
(https://i.imgur.com/pQRxpyo.jpg)
It's getting a little creative here at the end. :laugh: Bummer, I thought I had dialed in the settings!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Jan 31, 2022, 01:11 PM
It's getting a little creative here at the end. :laugh: Bummer, I thought I had dialed in the settings!
I expected the top of your dome to get wacky like that; about the most extreme angle you can print without supports is about 50 degrees off the vertical. You need to have supports in the center at the very least; there’s a limit to how far filament can bridge.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 01, 2022, 07:37 PM
I was expecting some delamination inside without supports, the tutorials I was watching mentioned it. Blocking those supports saved 6 days of printing though, so I'll take it! What I wasn't expecting was that huge ring on the outside. Folks in the clan suspect it was from a clog that resolved itself.
Here we are four days and one roll of filament later! So surreal to have the model in my hands. The dome where I changed the settings is much more shiny and solid than the rest of the print, delamination and clog line excluded. If I run my fingernail along the lower helmet, I can feel some of the outer layers shifting. Not sure if it's worth using this one or if I should save for more filament and print another later.
(https://i.imgur.com/7Hs4DXa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Yt38DuS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AGUwZiH.jpg)
Surprised how difficult it was to remove the supports. All the little cutouts in the upper earcaps are tough, gotta get some pliers to save my fingernails. Least I had good entertainment!
(https://i.imgur.com/aYMg2Hd.jpg)
Fit! Helmet, scrubs, chestplate mockup, hype!
(https://i.imgur.com/Vs66eUh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4uJ1vQr.jpg)
The helmet itself has a nice head/shoulder ratio from the outside, but I'm not sure about the fit on the inside. I had to do some face gymnastics to get it on with my glasses (getting the hang of it now!). My ears touch the sides, and my nose goes to the visor hole unless I press the helmet against the back of my head. Not sure if this is normal without padding, or how to tell if it will fit fans / a voice amp. I definitely need some padding to raise it vertically, otherwise I can't look down.
Very pleased with how nice the vision and ventilation is! I taped saran wrap over the visor and ran around the house for a while, much to the chagrin of my family. Wonder how different it will be with the tinted visor / padding.
I want to work on the next chestplate iteration! Going to try raising the front plate and flattening the sides -- I don't like how much this one sticks foward, I imagine it'll make the rifle bandolier weird to wear.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Feb 01, 2022, 09:52 PM
I like the slits on the earcaps :like: the helmet looks nice too!! Congrats on being a official bucket owner. :P
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Feb 01, 2022, 10:00 PM
That's looking very nice! Welcome to the bucket society.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Feb 02, 2022, 01:35 AM
I would say that if your nose is fitting through the visor gap unless the helmet is touching the back of your head, then the helmet is too small. The same thing if your ears touch the sides. I would definitely increase the size of the helmet and try again. It definitely looks a bit on the small side. Nice job for a first try though.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on Feb 02, 2022, 07:32 AM
Buckets are notoriously difficult to put on with glasses. If it's already that difficult to get the helmet on with your glasses and your plan is to also add in fans and wear a microphone/headset you might need a larger size :(
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 02, 2022, 05:24 PM
OK, I'm now leaning towards printing another helmet. At first I was really bummed about that. It's probably best that I stop worrying about my budget so much and allow myself to make mistakes! This one will stay on my table and judge me for my procrastination.
But honestly, even if I don't finish this one, It's still really exciting to have a physical helmet. I wore it around yesterday, and when I brushed my hair later, a whole bunch of filament chunks came out. :laugh:
Something quite concerning I read about: apparently, you shouldn't print PETG above 240C, because anything above 250 could melt the PTFE in the hotend and release a neurotoxin. When I was having delamination issues at 240, I raised it to the highest temp recommended by the filament supplier: 250. I don't know if my hotend is toast or if I have brain damage, but either way doesn't sound super great.
So, I shouldn't do PETG until I upgrade to a hotend without PTFE, and I think I'll keep my printer as default until I have more experience and understand what upgrades I need. I'm looking into PLA+ as an alternative.
Any ideas on how much bigger I should print it?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Feb 02, 2022, 05:57 PM
I think the general rule for helmet sizes is 1/3 of your overall width (shoulder to shoulder). I did actual head measurements so it would fit and modelled them accordingly. I would recommend using a fabric tape measure and doing some measurements of your head so you can compare those to the helmet you have. Honestly, it's not too far off. Maybe a few centimeters difference in radius. You should be able to up the sizes incrementally in the slicer software. The best thing you can do is measure and plan.
I would not print at the max temp of any filament if you can help it. High temps usually lead to globing or stringing, which you can see a lot of inside the helmet. The delaminations are usually caused by rapid cooling of the layers (if my understanding of PETG is right). Raising the temp *could* help, but so would turning off the fan on higher layers. I used to print ABS, which behaves similarly, though does not string and hates cooling. I needed to enclose the printer in a box to keep heat trapped so the layers had an event heating.
I think PLA+ would be a better option. PLA in general is really user friendly and requires less work to get moving correctly. However, PLA+ will require higher temperatures to print. Thus is the nature of these materials: Higher heat resistance means higher hot-end temperature to print. If you are worried about heat issues, you could fiberglass resin the back of the pieces, but PLA+ should not have that issue. That would be something I would do with PLA.
Press on, Vod. You are off to a good start!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Tramp Graphics on Feb 02, 2022, 08:16 PM
Specifically, the rule is based on your shoulder width in full kit. For people with narrow shoulders, that often means making shoulder armor specially designed to widen the look of their shoulders.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arkham on Feb 03, 2022, 01:37 PM
I think the general rule for helmet sizes is 1/3 of your overall width (shoulder to shoulder). I did actual head measurements so it would fit and modelled them accordingly. I would recommend using a fabric tape measure and doing some measurements of your head so you can compare those to the helmet you have. Honestly, it's not too far off. Maybe a few centimeters difference in radius. You should be able to up the sizes incrementally in the slicer software. The best thing you can do is measure and plan.
The rule is 1/2 the shoulder width.
Per the CRLs:
Quote
Helmet size will be judged on a case by case basis. Generally, the helmet’s width should not greatly fall short of or exceed 1/2 the width of the wearer’s shoulders measured from armored shoulder plate to armored shoulder plate.
As for measuring your helmet to your head for 3D printing, keep in mind your printer thinks in terms of the X/Y/Z axis. As such, I would measure your head the same way. Assuming the visor is facing the front of your printer, you would measure your head:
Side-to-side for X
Front-to-back for Y
Top-to-bottom for Z
You should be able to see the measurements for the helmet file in you slicer.
Then figure out how much space you want inside your helmet. Example: if you set the Y of your helmet to match the Y of your head, the tip of you nose would be even with the outside of your helmet. So, figure out how much space you want between the end of your nose and the inside of your visor. Then, make this your helmet measurement (Be sure to subtract the width of your helmet walls).
The same can be done for X and Z. There is nothing that says you have to increase them all evenly. Someone with a taller head may increase their Z by 120%, where they increase all of the other only by 103%.
See if the overall width of your resized helmet equates to about have your shoulder width, in armor, and you should be ready to go.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 03, 2022, 03:34 PM
Pity about the bucket but at least you have an incredibly cool paper weight ;)
Good lucknon the next print :jango:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Feb 03, 2022, 04:39 PM
The great thing about having a 3d printer isn’t that you can print your designs; there are any number of online services which will do that for you. The great thing about having a 3d printer is being able to prototype and iterate (relatively) quickly.
My first gauntlet design had limited range of motion, so I redesigned and reprinted. Unfortunately, my hotend thermistor died, so my printer is deadlined until the replacement arrives, but then I’ll be back to work on the rest of it.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 04, 2022, 12:31 PM
Very good info, everyone! It looks like I need to get my shoulders figured out before I size my helmet. I really need to get back to cardboard and finalize my kit concept. There's a May 4th troop I want to see if I can attend, so I need to get to work.
I ran back to Microcenter and exchanged a PLA roll I had for PLA+. I should print some calibration cubes so I'm ready for the next print! Perhaps my rifle?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Celtkhan on Feb 04, 2022, 03:08 PM
If you have a temp tower set up, I’d print that first. PLA+ has a different temp profile than PLA, so you want to make sure you’re in the zone.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 04, 2022, 11:40 PM
Interesting! I didn't know about temp towers, I'll go ahead and print one to see what works best.
I put some thought into a pulse rifle concept. As discussed waaaaay earlier in the thread, a local convention has some strict firearm rules, most notably a requirement for 50% of it being a bright color. I'm interested in the challenge of making this work for my kit! They never got back to me when I emailed them last year so I put this together and sent a follow up:
(https://i.imgur.com/wss02AW.png)
I used some EU Mandalorian color meanings in this:
White: "a new start", used on the Mando symbol. In-universe, I think Arco might be a foundling. Out-of-universe, I'm hoping this build brings me out of my shell and earns me confidence in crafting and pursuing my goals! Orange: "a lust for life", used as the main color. See above reasonings. Gold: "vengeance", used for accents and notably on the trigger. Because if someone gets war crime'd by Arco, there's a reason! :P
Started work on some cardboard shoulder concepts. They're harder than I thought! Will hopefully have something to show tomorrow.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 06, 2022, 10:41 PM
Heard back from security about my rifle. I'll be adding a removable linen wrap to cover the trigger and some of the stock, then I should be good to go! Maybe I'll add beads / fangs / hunting trophies too. Looking forward to leaning into the primal / futuristic vibe (is there a term for that genre?).
I've been working on pauldron mockups, embracing the spiky aesthetic for a narglatch breeder. I'll be adding ridges to all the sides / centers of the final plates to give them a Post-Imperial touch.
This one is based off the MandoCreator concept:
(https://i.imgur.com/7WD5nfG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vqp6fFg.jpg)
This is something I threw together for curiosity:
(https://i.imgur.com/bNCYPjB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ikSloAK.jpg)
I'm thinking about leg armor and wondering if I should use canon covert plates or design my own. I like incorporating canon elements, but if I design them myself, I can make something that suits the spiky shoulders better. I'll think it through while working on my next chestplate iteration!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Feb 07, 2022, 09:46 AM
Really like the spike design of the plates. :like: Rifle is cool too.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Feb 07, 2022, 11:44 AM
I am liking the first set of shoulders. Both are really neat though!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 07, 2022, 11:48 AM
Heard back from security about my rifle. I'll be adding a removable linen wrap to cover the trigger and some of the stock, then I should be good to go! Maybe I'll add beads / fangs / hunting trophies too. Looking forward to leaning into the primal / futuristic vibe (is there a term for that genre?).
I've been working on pauldron mockups, embracing the spiky aesthetic for a narglatch breeder. I'll be adding ridges to all the sides / centers of the final plates to give them a Post-Imperial touch.
This one is based off the MandoCreator concept:
(https://i.imgur.com/7WD5nfG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vqp6fFg.jpg)
This is something I threw together for curiosity:
(https://i.imgur.com/bNCYPjB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ikSloAK.jpg)
I'm thinking about leg armor and wondering if I should use canon covert plates or design my own. I like incorporating canon elements, but if I design them myself, I can make something that suits the spiky shoulders better. I'll think it through while working on my next chestplate iteration!
Wow, those are both really interesting. The second looks almost like a royal guard type thing.
In terms of leg armor, maybe the mandocreator legacy thighplates?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: AboveAverageGeek on Feb 07, 2022, 02:35 PM
I love the second shoulder concept! Also I wanted to say that I've been lurking in this thread for awhile and your process has been incredible to watch. Super inspiring. Also, I think that regardless of which shoulder concept you go with, the more personalized design for the leg armor would suit your kit quite well.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Jennari on Feb 07, 2022, 07:00 PM
I prefer the first shoulder concept.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 08, 2022, 12:54 AM
Thanks for the input, everyone. :) It's reassuring to see they're both liked!
In terms of leg armor, maybe the mandocreator legacy thighplates?
For sure! If I go for a non-PI design, it will largely be based on the MandoCreator plates like the shoulders are. They look fantastic, but it's worth noting that the legacy design is created by a fan and is not technically from canon -- also, although they're approvable for PI, legacy plates typically fall under modern era.
I love the second shoulder concept! Also I wanted to say that I've been lurking in this thread for awhile and your process has been incredible to watch. Super inspiring. Also, I think that regardless of which shoulder concept you go with, the more personalized design for the leg armor would suit your kit quite well.
That's super flattering, I hope my thought processes and experiments are helpful! Yes, the personalized designs are tempting -- even if I use the canon plates, I'd have to figure out how to paint 'em up all spiky to match.
It just occurred to me that I should repost the current concept iteration for reference:
(https://i.imgur.com/tu9cRu8.png)
So, the first shoulder design is angular, chunky, and imposing, while the second one is rounder and more elegant. After some thought, I favor the bolder look of the first design and its more imposing silhouette. On the other hand, the smaller frame of the second design would be less likely to bump into things, and the round shape is more reminiscent of PI pauldrons.
By the way, if anyone wants to use the cardboard designs I'm throwing around, they are more than welcome to! I can snap a pic of flat templates if there's interest.
I'm going down the rabbithole of design lore! Big typeup of my findings, screenshots, and thoughts incoming...
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 13, 2022, 05:53 PM
Time for a worldbuilding tangent! I've been looking at live action Mandos and trying to determine where Arco fits in, as that factors into character design. We've seen three groups of Mandos so far, so let's take a look!
First, the Children of the Watch. They are low on beskar, and it shows -- their armor is mismatched, asymmetrical, and unbalanced. Some plates are missing. Some plates are not even Mandalorian in origin. Note Din's design, for example. This is a concept from the artbook:
Quote from ScreenRant (https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-armor-stormtrooper-trophies-star-wars/):
Quote
Matyas reveals Mando’s armor incorporates elements from trophy kills. “I started pilfering from some pieces of designs that I really liked, like the shoretroopers and death troopers,” he explains. “Essentially, we’ve only seen them in Rogue One. I would think they’re rare. So, if he has a bounty where he kills one, it’s like a trophy.” Interestingly enough, though, it seems these trophies have gradually been replaced over the course of the series. Din Djarin obtained a large quantity of beskar for turning in Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian season 1, and this was forged into replacement parts for his armor. She specifically replaces a shoulder pad, which had originally been taken from a Shoretrooper.
Considering the CotW's disdain for the Empire, I always found it surprising they would use plates from troopers due to how sacred Mandalorian armor is -- but the trophy angle adds some perspective. They are practical and take what they can get during the armor shortage, but as noted above, these pieces are the first to be replaced when beskar is found. Notably, Din opted to keep his repainted shoretrooper shnee, which appears to be a common trophy for the CotW -- though many PI Mandalorians use leather wraps rather than shin armor.
If you're interested in the creation of Din, I recommend this interview with Brian Matyas. He goes into the process it took to get him onscreen.
It's also worth looking at how Din's armor changed from S1 to S2:
He started in episode 1 with repurposed and durasteel plates. When he got his beskar pauldron, he replaced the shoretrooper shoulder. When he upgraded to beskar, he kept his right durasteel thigh plate at first, only patching up the damaged areas. It was only in season two when he replaced it fully:
(https://i.imgur.com/DkUZBXS.png)
Let's take a look at the other CotW Mandos. These are official concepts in the artbook, also by Brian Matyas. Not canon, but canon-adjacent enough to be used for inspiration, in my opinion:
Please check out this thread from TheDentedHelmet (https://www.thedentedhelmet.com/forums/threads/the-covert-tribe-mandalorians-references.36668/) -- some of these images came directly from here, and there are even more great references I didn't crosspost. TheCovertTribe did a lot of impressive legwork connecting the concepts to the show, very interesting stuff!
Also look through this album of enhanced Episode 3 screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/ffYW3Mj) put together by Sakane. Very useful canon references!
As an aside, while looking for information about the CotW, I read someone call episode 3 "The Great Baby Yoda Caper" and thought that delightful tidbit was worth sharing.
Next, let's look at the Post-Imperial (?) Death Watch. I made an album of screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/GTsYBBM) from the episode 8 flashback.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZTVNzwY.png)
Their design fits the "Post-Imperial" category, but this flashback technically takes place during the Clone Wars. Importantly, this is before the Great Purge, so beskar was presumably not in short supply. They would be more likely to use beskar or durasteel rather than scavenge for trooper armor.
Death Watch mandos have differing paint accents, but all of them have very similar armor plates to the point of being uniform. Many of these plate designs are used by the CotW, which makes sense given their connection. I did notice two variations of the small thigh plate: the one with the off-center divot, and the one with the center ridge. Recall that the off-center divot was used by V1 Din, which he later replaced with the center ridge design.
I'd like to bring attention back to the concept art that shows repurposed plates:
Din's left shoulder and a thigh piece are said to be repurposed. However, these designs match what the Death Watch were using here, back before there was a beskar shortage. Given how uniformly and cohesively these plates are used in the Death Watch, I'm going to assume that this changed from concept to show, and these plate designs are now Mandalorian in origin.
And finally, the Nite Owls. I took a truly absurd amount of screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/NMxpoLU) from episode 11.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pk48Dnn.png)
Notice Bo-Katan's shin plates -- don't see many of those in the PI era!
(https://i.imgur.com/TvCQuQ8.png)
They are not wearing a uniform like the Death Watch is, but even so, their plates are cohesive, color matched, and balanced: two thigh plates, two tasset plates, two knees, etc. Note that Bo-Katan and Koska have different variations of the same chest plate. They also have shoulder, tasset, and shin designs that are not seen elsewhere. Axe, on the other hand, uses the same plates as the Death Watch, specifically the variation with the thigh plate divot. If we'd seen feminine mandos in the Death Watch scene, I wonder if they'd have the same plates as the Nite Owls?
As mentioned in the animated series, beskar is traditionally passed down through families for generations and reforged for the new wearer. Both the Death Watch and the Nite Owls give the impression that their armor sets are complete and forged specifically for them. This is interesting compared to the CotW's cobbled together look -- perhaps foundlings (which I assume comprise a good chunk of the CotW) don't inherit their armor as much as other Mandalorian groups do.
I don't think any other Nite Owl plates match the CotW's. I wonder how these designs spread through the clans!
For additional references, the Nite Owls and Death Watch mandos have figurines that seem to be accurate -- and much easier on the eyes than the dark, motion-blurred screenshots.
Okay, that was a lot. My brain is mush right now. :laugh: Feel free to share your own thoughts and observations, and any additional references you may have!
Now, how does this information apply to Arco? The next few days, I'll review the references above, watch a few more episodes for screenshots, and work through my thoughts. Another writeup incoming!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: AboveAverageGeek on Feb 13, 2022, 07:13 PM
I was just about to start this research for my own kit, and you beat me to it. Thanks for sharing. Trying to figure out where a character fits in to the existing universe is simultaneously daunting and exciting. I'm excited to dive into your screen shots.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 14, 2022, 03:10 AM
Hey, nice! If you find something in your research that I didn't see, please do share. It's a bit intimidating to try and sort things out when we don't know what new lore will come in season 3!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 14, 2022, 09:58 AM
I know there's way more to it than this in the in universe cannon, but in terms of death watch mandos in an era where there was an abundance of beskar i think it was just reuse. You know, the budget's only so big.
I'll try abd think of something in cannon though.
Amyway i just want you to know how much i adore the kinds of posts. :<3:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Feb 14, 2022, 11:06 AM
Here are my 2 cents,
The PI period is a very dark time for Mandalorians and the artstyle for them really makes it clear (and your resources point out, which are really cool btw). They lack beskar, numbers, and their home. So, most PI armor setups are cobbled together for the average Mando. People like Bo-Katan and the Night Owls have kept their armor from the past decades, but they are an exception like Din Djarin. Universe wise, trying to explain opulent or clean armor can be difficult, especially when the universe continues to add information.
You could always wait to write a clear backstory since it is not required. Though, I understand the appeal of writing a story in the interim. I do find it helpful to write a backstory and add those details into the armor. For instance, dents, trophies, or sigils can have their own story reason for being there.
Spoilers for those who haven't watched TCW or Rebels The Deathwatch have always been a sect in the Mandalorian clans; even their legends armor is different than the normal supercommando armor. It is possible the variation in armor comes from the period near the very end of the clone wars. Specifically, those that would not follow Maul running away back to Concordia. We can glean that the Children of the Watch are a subset of the Deathwatch. *Maybe* that variation was to distinguish themselves from the other Mandalorians again. I find this reasonable since the Protectors have another armor variation. Therefore, the armor variation seems dictated by subculture rather than merely being Mandalorian.
Here are my ideas if you wanted suggestions: Looking at your concept, it seems primarily constructed of beskar. It is possible they gained this material from tradition, hardwork, or stumbled upon it. The colors reminiscent of the Wrens, but it is unclear whether they survived or varied their armor. Though, I would not let that stop you if that is where you want to go. Outside of the large ideas, I think it would be really cool to see trophies around the belt line. I have seen imperial rank plaques, cylinder codes, Mandalorian diamonds, tally marks, droid fingers, light sabers, et cetera.
Looking forward to what your making here!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 14, 2022, 03:35 PM
I know there's way more to it than this in the in universe cannon, but in terms of death watch mandos in an era where there was an abundance of beskar i think it was just reuse. You know, the budget's only so big.
Yeah, from a practical standpoint, that's probably what happened. :) But now we have to explain it away from a story perspective! I think it makes sense that there's no solid time difference between PI and modern designs -- it's not like the empire fell and all mando armor suddenly changed -- so it makes sense to me that "Post-Imperial" designs would start circulating sometime during the Clone Wars, much like Boba's design is still modern well into the PI era. It's the idea of repurposed trooper armor being an official part of the Death Watch uniform that has me iffy. I think it would make more sense if those plates turned out not to be repurposed as is suggested in the concept art, but instead be an official mando plate design. Ultimately, it's all speculation!
Yorwoin -- I agree with your assessments! I very much appreciate your two cents from the animated series as well (I need to re-watch them now that I'm more invested in the Death Watch...).
I know I don't need a full backstory, I could sort the details out as I go along, but for the moment I'm interested in things that have a large influence on design. Is Arco a Child of the Watch? I'll probably have some messy asymmetry then. Or am I more similar to the Nite Owls? I'd be more cohesive and clean in that case. And of course, details like being a narglatch breeder will aid with weathering and damage. I'd love my kit to talk just by looking at it!
Regarding my concept, I do believe I'm switching it up a bit following my latest PI concept dive, more info on that to come. I'll certainly have to play with what goes on the belt, too. Aside from useful pouches for phone / wallet / portable fan, I'll probably add things like throwing knives and narglatch quills once I finish OM and get started on brigades. I can see the whole belt area changing quite a bit as I go along!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 15, 2022, 02:02 AM
Alright! Getting close to a final design. Let's talk through my thoughts. For reference, here's my current MandoCreator concept with my best attempt at recreating the legs / gauntlets I want. (I didn't come anywhere close. :laugh:)
(https://i.imgur.com/gMZyOno.jpg)
My original wish was to go full pure beskar, but as I've thought on it, I realized that's not practical for me. Not only does chrome require a lot of prep and pricey materials to initially paint, it's also going to be a pain to maintain. It can get damaged even with a clearcoat, and more importantly, dents or scratches could result in the whole plate needing to be remade, considering how difficult it is to damage pure beskar.
I've scaled it back to pure beskar helmet and shoulders (and gauntlets?) with a durasteel alloy everywhere else. This is exciting for a couple of reasons. For one, I love the plain metal look, and I think it will be visually interesting to highlight the difference between beskar and durasteel plates. Another reason is that I'm enchanted by the underwiring shown in Din's plates, and since my intended brigade requires heavy weathering, I could have a damaged durasteel plate with exposed underwiring!
As far as Mandalorian groups go, my very favorite are the Children of the Watch. Unfortunately, due to my low heat tolerance and lack of trooping experience, I'm not sure how practical it is for me to never remove my helmet. After some thought, I've decided to go for it anyway -- if I pick anything other than the Tribe, I think there will always be a part of me that's a little bummed about it. I'll have to brainstorm some fun things to say when I inevitably remove the helmet in public!
So, I'll have some custom beskar pieces and generic durasteel / scavenged pieces, all with heavy weathering, and a durasteel plate with exposed underwiring. As it turns out, we have an excellent canon reference for this aesthetic!
(https://i.imgur.com/ndil2nj.png)
How about that! I never noticed since my favorite Din variation is season two, but this post-mudhorn pre-beskar design is a perfect reference for my kit! I'll definitely keep it in mind going forward.
Now, I have my upper armor figured out, but my main motivation for doing the last writeup was to help me decide on leg armor. So, what are my thoughts? Let's talk about how I interpret the CotW leg designs.
Here are the VFX models again for reference, as well as Sakane's screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/ffYW3Mj):
(https://i.imgur.com/E25DvUi.png)
As far as leg plates go, the tribe primarily mixes and matches between three sets, which I have been calling "variation 1", "variation 2", and "repurposed".
Variation 1 sets, particularly the thighs, are the most common and recognizable. Not only are they used by the Tribe and by Din, but the thighs are also used by the Death Watch and the Nite Owls. They consist of asymmetrical thighs and a shin that wraps completely. Here is a mando with a set of var1 thighs, and a mando with one var1 thigh and mixed var1/var2 shins:
(https://i.imgur.com/N93Co31.png)
Variation 2 sets are only seen in the Tribe, and seem to match the heavy chestplate. They consist of asymmetrical thighs and a shnee that is much like the var1 shin, with an added knee and boot plate. Here is a mando who uses var2 thighs and a var2 shnee. (Sidenote: I think that is a Nite Owl pauldron!):
(https://i.imgur.com/NvVM7Hb.png)
Repurposed plates are hard to identify! As mentioned in the previous post, the concept art doesn't seem to fit with what we see from other mando groups. I've tentatively decided to only consider the shoretrooper pauldron and shnee to be the repurposed plates:
(https://i.imgur.com/QlmampL.png)
A note on custom plates and exceptions to these rules: some mandos in the Tribe (cough, all the named characters, cough) use a few plates that are unique to them. Look at the VFX model of Paz: he uses var2 shnees, helmet, and chest (plus diaphragm plate), but the rest is unique. Notably, his thigh plates do appear to be custom, but are based heavily on the var2 ones. The Armorer, of course, uses a completely different armor set to the others. Din started out matching the Tribe, but as he kept upgrading, he got some plate designs that are specific to him. I was reluctant to use the non-canon shoulders and the helmet / chestplate modifications that I love, but there is precedent enough that I shouldn't be so hard on myself!
Okay! Now that we've looked through all that... What do I want to use for my legs?
Shoretrooper shnee: I always loved this angular design (It's spiky! I love spiky!! :P), but dismissed it because it was Imperial in origin. However, considering its popularity in the Tribe... when labeling it as a trophy, I think it works! I will put it on my left shin because I kneel on my right knee.
Durasteel shin: Due to my kama, this plate is my best bet to show exposed underwiring. I'm surprised there aren't many shin options, it seems leather wraps are popular. The Nite Owls have their own design, but I'll stick with the Tribe. I'll go for var1 (no shnees) because I want to be able to kneel.
Thigh set: I am leaning towards a matching set of thighplates used by the covert. This is a departure from the spiky aesthetic of my shoulders, but from a story perspective, it makes sense. I may change this to a custom design based on the legacy MandoCreator plates if I decide to prioritize aesthetic over lore. I'll put the smaller plate on my left side since I kneel on my right knee.
I am leaning towards the var1 set because it's common and more recognizably canon. However, the var2 is more angular and may suit the shoulders / chest better. I like how they wrap around the leg, but I worry this may not be as comfortable as the var1 set. Check out how they look in the episode 3 screenshots -- pretty snazzy!
(https://i.imgur.com/2hij5Of.png)
Tasset plate?: Arco would consider the shoretrooper plate to be a trophy rather than real armor. Arguably, this means it doesn't count towards the four pieces of lower body armor required in the CRLs! :P I don't actually want more armor pieces because I want to be as comfortable as possible in kit, but this train of thought tickles me. The Nite Owl tasset design looks better in my opinion, but for consistency, I think I'd prefer the Tribe's design. If I go for it, it will be on my left side, as I am left handed and that hip would probably face outward more often.
So, I guess I'm not 100% decided yet, but I like where this is going! Looks like I have some cardboard mockups to make.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Fenn Beviin on Feb 15, 2022, 09:44 AM
I like where this is going as well.
Now after 14 pages of thread - do some building!!! :laugh:
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Yorwoin on Feb 15, 2022, 11:40 AM
I second Fenn,
You have a pretty good concept there, so you can start working on big pieces you know you will use. For instance, the chest plate or helmet. You can change things along the way, of course.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Second Son on Feb 15, 2022, 01:47 PM
This is solid work, vod. Arco, I am in awe of your depth of research and will be bookmarking it for a P/I set, even though I'm 98% there with my Classic (Original Recipe) Modern Kit. Now that I've read this latest addition to your thread I'm planning an Official Variant with P/I torso armor. Gotta check with the Ruus about how much cross-kit part use is allowed, or if I'll just have to make a whole new set (which would be terrible :) )
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 16, 2022, 02:36 PM
In terms of thigh plates, i think var 2 would more suit how sharp and angular the rest of the plates are.
Also, i wouldn't say you have to stay away from nite owl plates. I'm sure the cotw could have gotten some somewhere, between possible conflicts between them, defections or spme other stuff that could pop into my head.
Again, love you're posts.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 16, 2022, 05:23 PM
You have a pretty good concept there, so you can start working on big pieces you know you will use. For instance, the chest plate or helmet. You can change things along the way, of course.
I've still got some ironing out to do on pretty much all my patterns! The shoulders are the most set-in-stone, but I want to make sure they don't collide with the chest plate before moving to sintra. I should probably dive into the flightsuit / flak first to make sure the sintra plates fit with no float.
This is solid work, vod. Arco, I am in awe of your depth of research and will be bookmarking it for a P/I set, even though I'm 98% there with my Classic (Original Recipe) Modern Kit. Now that I've read this latest addition to your thread I'm planning an Official Variant with P/I torso armor. Gotta check with the Ruus about how much cross-kit part use is allowed, or if I'll just have to make a whole new set (which would be terrible :) )
Yessss! Join the PImps. I'd love to se a PI chest plate out of metal!
In terms of thigh plates, i think var 2 would more suit how sharp and angular the rest of the plates are.
Also, i wouldn't say you have to stay away from nite owl plates. I'm sure the cotw could have gotten some somewhere, between possible conflicts between them, defections or spme other stuff that could pop into my head.
Again, love you're posts.
I'm actually starting to lean towards var 2 for the thigh plates, too! I really want the recognizability of the var 1, but the angular ones just plain look nice with my other plates...
Your thoughts on the Nite Owl plates make sense! We already know they have at least some crossover with CotW designs (Axe Woves' plates are var 1, he's almost using the Death Watch uniform). I just wonder if the other tasset design is more recognizably CotW, especially since Din uses it.
My flightsuit and flak vest are a big mental hurdle, I think they're a part of why I keep hovering in the planning stage forever.
So, I borrowed a friend's ancient sewing machine and started learning the ropes... until it made a weird smell that I was NOT a fan of. Seems it may need a tune up? Being completely new to sewing, I wonder if I should go down the rabbithole of fixing it, or if I should just go to the library and use theirs...
Well, my boxcutter doesn't need a tuneup! Seems tonight is time to work on chest and leg templates instead.
Question for those who scratch build PVC gauntlets -- can you make them using a handsaw, a heatgun, and a drill, or do you need more equipment?
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arkham on Feb 17, 2022, 05:18 PM
I'm actually starting to lean towards var 2 for the thigh plates, too! I really want the recognizability of the var 1, but the angular ones just plain look nice with my other plates...
...or, you can just design your own thigh plates that work best for you with the rest of your costume and allow you to move as needed.
Just a thought.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 17, 2022, 10:45 PM
...or, you can just design your own thigh plates that work best for you with the rest of your costume and allow you to move as needed.
Just a thought.
I would like to use as many canon plates as I can -- these shoulders I'm smitten by are already a bit far from PI for my tastes. ;) I'd like my durasteel plates to be standard CotW!
I'm working on the var 2 right thigh pattern. It's trickier than I thought, but it's exciting to turn these blurry screenshots into a real pattern!
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 18, 2022, 04:02 PM
From small, blurry screenshots...
(https://i.imgur.com/pZ98VT2.png)
...To a pattern!
(https://i.imgur.com/eUzDn0Q.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qVzpSsO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LMNX6R5.jpg)
I'm liking the fit, and I'm able to sit comfortably in it. I think the var 2 plates will work. I just wish they were recognizable (and considering the quality of the references I was able to get, I'm pretty sure they won't be :laugh:), but hey, I'll know where they came from and I suppose that's what's important!
Onto the left thigh plate...
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 18, 2022, 04:34 PM
I'm pretty sure paz has identical thigh plares, so that'd be good for reference.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 18, 2022, 05:14 PM
Paz's is a very similar variant! If you look closely, Paz's plates wrap around much more fully than the olive mando's -- looks like they could wrap the entire thigh. The olive mando does something similar with one of his, but the beige mando does not. It's interesting to see how this one design can be altered for different effects (and makes me feel better about the customizations I'm adding to my chest / helmet! :laugh:).
You bring up a good point, though -- Paz is worth looking at, even if I only do the light variant! Maybe I should do a screenshot watch of a recent episode...
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Second Son on Feb 19, 2022, 04:54 PM
Oh yes. My permanently squinted eyes are taking a breather.
Note that the details in the enhanced images are clearer, but the colors are no longer accurate. Here's the full album (https://imgur.com/a/IeawAWj) (BoBF episode 5 spoilers for those who haven't watched yet!). These aren't comprehensive since I was focusing on his lower body armor, there were some good upper body shots in the episode too if someone was interested in those. I've already got a good chest base from analyzing this album (https://imgur.com/a/LnJU5tE) I found on Google.
Also, TIL Paz has elbow plates!
So, from what I can gather -- Paz has plain sheets of metal that wrap fully around his legs. Placed on top of that are variants of the plates I'm using! How's that for trauma plating? Here are my observations of the right thigh compared to my template and the olive mando:
The side panels are not only curved; there is a bend down the middle. Upon closer inspection, this matches the olive mando's plate.
(https://i.imgur.com/XS45AkE.png)
The top panel is an additional trauma plate. Upon closer inspection, this matches the olive mando's plate.
(https://i.imgur.com/t84KzbQ.png)
The right panel juts outward at a sharper angle than I thought. When comparing to the olive mando's plate, it seems this is an extra panel added to Paz's design.
(https://i.imgur.com/fFaeLl9.png)
Thank you to Karson for the suggestion! I was going to write Paz off as a reference since his plate was different, but this turned out to be a great resource to compare. I'll make those changes to my template and get to work on the left leg.
Title: Re: First build – Need help with canon lore and design
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 22, 2022, 01:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wWES05b.gif)
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 23, 2022, 06:20 PM
Got the left template down! The top row of screenshots are the olive mando (who I'm basing mine off of) and the rest are Paz, whose left thigh seems accurate to the olive mando.
(https://i.imgur.com/nZswvzH.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TGEpXDU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xZrQyHP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Kx9ddBH.jpg)
I'm concerned about floating on both the thigh plates. Looking at the screenshots, it looks like these plates are designed to float near the knee, except for Paz who has a plate underneath. The top panel is flat in the references, and I'm inclined to keep it screen accurate... but I do want it to look fitted to me, and I'm worried keeping it accurate may look sloppy in practice. I may have to curve the flat panel to fit me better. I'll do further refining during my actual build when I have a flight suit, but this is a good template for the concept.
Oh boy, this is where the fun begins. The shin armor wraps fully around, so simple paper drafting won't work. Time to make a duct tape dummy of my leg!
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 24, 2022, 08:45 PM
Well, I'm officially more concerned about my shins than my chestplate! I'm second guessing my thoughts to make this out of sintra, I'm not sure I'll be able to make it seamless and shape it as smoothly as I'd like to.
My clan recommended checking out Free Form Air to hide the seams, and I remember Apoxie Sculpt being mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm hoping this plus lots of sanding will work out alright.
Do you guys have any thoughts or know of any similar sintra builds?
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Feb 26, 2022, 11:46 PM
Still working on the shin template. Definitely the most frustrating piece so far. I may just make a template of the base and worry about the differentiating details during the actual build, but I know it'll make the build smoother if I can figure them out ahead of time, so I'll take a breather and start again tomorrow.
By the way, happy birthday to this thread! My concept sure has evolved a lot. I remember feeling dead set on my first draft, but I'm really happy with the changes. The design is more storied now -- it's a great base for the story I want to tell with brigades in the future.
(https://i.imgur.com/BttgPAS.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wMI4MA4.png)
Here's something scary: I officially have a deadline! There are troops I want to go to on April 22 and May the 4th. Let's get something wearable by then and approvable soon after!
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Karson Wren on Feb 27, 2022, 08:49 AM
And the race is on! :jango:
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Feb 28, 2022, 07:36 AM
Good for you Arco doing a deadline!! They can be hard. And happy birthday to your kit!! Your new concept is awesome! ;D
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 02, 2022, 01:46 AM
Thanks for the encouragement, guys!
I've been thrifting for mando boots since last June, and this whole time I barely found a crumb. Well, today I found a feast!
(https://i.imgur.com/spBMEiR.jpg)
TWO nice, wide, LACELESS options that fit! I've been toying with the idea of having a few extra plates to switch out depending on my mood, and those tall boots would be nice with Bo-Katan style shins.
Speaking of shins.... AAAaaah! It's been a good three days of work on the shoretrooper shin, and I'm still not happy with it. This is the fifth cardboard iteration and I still have some issues to iron out, but it's getting close. I cut down an old iteration to act as my CotW thigh and tried them on:
(https://i.imgur.com/crsUhw1.jpg)
One of the hardest things about this design has been coming to terms with the fact I won't be able to give it screen accurate proportions AND proportions that fit well to my form. I know fit comes first, but it still stings to look at this and see how different it is from the references.
Phew. Back to work on it tomorrow!
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 03, 2022, 11:28 PM
OK. I'm still not perfectly happy with these, but I'm starting to go a little nuts with how much I've been stressing over them. Since this iteration fits and looks decent, here's the shin templates I'm going with:
(https://i.imgur.com/B5RppQk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/w5YqAVN.jpg)
Shoretrooper shnee:
(https://i.imgur.com/5AOIw7c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZQvAJdc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/celJhcA.jpg)
CotW shin:
(https://i.imgur.com/LAa8cl3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/buKuUPi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T71Cjhz.jpg)
As mentioned before, in order to make these fit comfortably, I had to adjust the proportions of the screen accurate details... which really bums me out! But I figure I should go ahead with these so I have something to troop with. If I'm still not happy, I can remake them. I just need to stop perfectionism-procrastinating or I'll never get approvable.
So, here's the references I used! The CotW shnee is very hard to see. Paz's seems to match the basic shnee with an extra boot plate, so I've been using that as a reference too.
(https://i.imgur.com/rUUyg7Z.png)
As far as the shoretrooper shnee goes, I've been looking at this album (https://www.thedentedhelmet.com/forums/media/albums/din-djarin-d23-2019.703/) from The Dented Helmet user Scott Kaufmann. I've also been taking screenshots, but the album is honestly easier to see. My favorite of my screenshots is this moment where Din kneeled on his and accidentally broke it.
(https://i.imgur.com/R9nRGtq.png)
Anyway... I'm almost done with the cardboard templates, then I'll finally start the build! I'm going to dial in my current chest plate iteration and then I'll have a full set of cardboard armor.
Except the backplate. The backplate doesn't count. That CRL doesn't exist until the app team yells at me.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 06, 2022, 02:25 PM
I don't like 3D printing anymore! >:( Three hours into a five minute tutorial, I identified and fixed an issue with the PTFE tubing, but now the nozzle won't screw in the whole way. Not sure if it's cross threaded and needs a new heat block (which apparently I can only replace the entire hotend on my model...?) or what. I'll try cold pulling to clean the threads and hope for the best.
In better news, I have a new chest plate variation!
Here is the original:
(https://i.imgur.com/uJb84VS.jpg)
Here I made an effort to flatten it:
(https://i.imgur.com/iBKOgtb.jpg)
Which version looks best? (Ignore the shoulder float -- it was surprisingly difficult to keep them from falling off!)
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Celtkhan on Mar 06, 2022, 09:14 PM
Do a full disassemble on the hot end; you might have some plastic between your heat brake and heater block. Also, it might be easier to screw in the nozzle if you heat up the hot end a *little* before screwing it in, since hot metal expands. Just don’t go high enough to burn yourself.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 07, 2022, 01:09 AM
That's the idea! I ordered a metal brush that will hopefully help with cleaning the heat block. I learned a lot when replacing the PTFE tube, so I'm sure disassembling the hotend will be a good experience. And yes, I screwed in the nozzle while it was hot, and I have the blisters to prove it! :P
I also ordered sewing machine oil! Here's hoping that's all the machine needed and it's not a motor issue. I'm getting to work on patterning the spats and started seam ripping pockets from the scrubs.
With any luck, all my machines will be up and running for my build sprint to the convention in April...
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Karson Wren on Mar 07, 2022, 05:41 AM
That chestpiece looks great! :like:
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: AboveAverageGeek on Mar 08, 2022, 01:54 PM
Chest piece looks good! I’m also working on another iteration so I appreciate the work. I’m sorry the 3d printer is being so frustrating, at least you seem to have a direction you’re going. As far as the sewing machine goes, what model/make do you have? What issues are you having? I’m no expert but I have my own finicky machine that I’ve had to take apart a few times. Luckily now it’s working well but I’m always willing to give advice. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 08, 2022, 02:47 PM
Chest piece looks good! I’m also working on another iteration so I appreciate the work. I’m sorry the 3d printer is being so frustrating, at least you seem to have a direction you’re going. As far as the sewing machine goes, what model/make do you have? What issues are you having? I’m no expert but I have my own finicky machine that I’ve had to take apart a few times. Luckily now it’s working well but I’m always willing to give advice. Best of luck.
The sewing machine is a Janome RX18S, and when I tried using it, it made a strong metallic smell that I'm not sure is normal or a sign that the motor will explode. I found the manual online and followed its instructions for cleaning the dust out and oiling the recommended areas. I thought I would need to oil more than just three places, but I suppose the manual knows best!
It's definitely worth the extra work to do more iterations if you have any doubts. The one I labelled "original" above is at least the fourth version and is infinitely better than the first, I'm very glad I kept refining it!
After asking around, it seems the majority of people prefer the original chest plate rather than the flattened one, which is my preference too. The reason I wanted to try flattening it is because I want a bandolier with the pulse rifle, and I was worried the weight could snap the plate since it sticks out so much. Since I'm not a fan of the flattened plate, I'll look into reinforcing the original with extra sintra and padding. Hopefully that works!
So, I've begun work on the spats in my soft goods WIP thread (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=204271.0)! Let's get stuff done!
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: AboveAverageGeek on Mar 08, 2022, 03:24 PM
The sewing machine is a Janome RX18S, and when I tried using it, it made a strong metallic smell that I'm not sure is normal or a sign that the motor will explode. I found the manual online and followed its instructions for cleaning the dust out and oiling the recommended areas. I thought I would need to oil more than just three places, but I suppose the manual knows best!
It's definitely worth the extra work to do more iterations if you have any doubts. The one I labelled "original" above is at least the fourth version and is infinitely better than the first, I'm very glad I kept refining it!
After asking around, it seems the majority of people prefer the original chest plate rather than the flattened one, which is my preference too. The reason I wanted to try flattening it is because I want a bandolier with the pulse rifle, and I was worried the weight could snap the plate since it sticks out so much. Since I'm not a fan of the flattened plate, I'll look into reinforcing the original with extra sintra and padding. Hopefully that works!
So, I've begun work on the spats in my soft goods WIP thread (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=204271.0)! Let's get stuff done!
Sounds like you are on the right track sewing machine wise. If the smell continues after you service the machine to the best of your ability I would see if there are any sewing machine stores near you that you can bring it into. In my experience these places will often give your machine a look and let you know what is likely wrong with it even without having to officially "service" the machine. Mileage may vary and all that, but I think it may be worth a shot.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 09, 2022, 01:40 AM
Sounds like you are on the right track sewing machine wise. If the smell continues after you service the machine to the best of your ability I would see if there are any sewing machine stores near you that you can bring it into. In my experience these places will often give your machine a look and let you know what is likely wrong with it even without having to officially "service" the machine. Mileage may vary and all that, but I think it may be worth a shot.
Little update in that regard, the machine is definitely working better since I oiled and cleaned it -- the metallic smell doesn't permeate the whole room anymore (I had to crack a window last time). It does well for the most part, but occasionally I'll put a small amount of pressure on the pedal, the engine will whirr without moving the needle, then the metallic smell comes back. I'm no expert, but that seems like a bad sign! I'll have to take your advice and look for sewing shops near me.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 14, 2022, 02:18 AM
After a year of planning my kit, I went to my very first armor party! It was with the local Star Wars group, so I got to see some great work from across all the clubs. I loved meeting everyone, and it was motivating to see what everyone's working on.
A generous vod gave me the rest of his 6mm sintra sheet to play around with, and man, it is MUCH higher quality than the Amazon sheet I bought. I'm going to invest in a sheet of proper sintra for my plates. Not sure what I'll do with this spongy Amazon stuff!
The folks at the armor party helped me with my flight suit tailoring, I hope to have it finished by tomorrow. Updates are in my soft goods WIP thread.
Goals for this week are to finish the flight suit, neck seal, and flak vest. Now that the weather is improving, paint swatches are in the cards, too.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Karson Wren on Mar 14, 2022, 01:50 PM
Sounds AMAZING :porg2:
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Mar 14, 2022, 02:50 PM
That's great!! Armor party's are the best ;D
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 17, 2022, 02:08 AM
Thanks guys!
Little update today, I took advantage of the mosquito-free almost-warm weather to make some more swatches to paint. Forming the sintra is tough, even with an anvil -- the layers don't stay together, and the squares warp so easily under heat. Take a look:
(https://i.imgur.com/fIzZuh7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WQ1BuQc.jpg)
I shared my frustrations with my clan, and the consensus is that I need to throw the Amazon sintra in a woodchipper. I'm curious how different it will be when I get a 3mm sheet of the name brand stuff!
I had to return the sewing machine to the friend I was borrowing it from. Good news, it was running perfectly and the metallic smell was nothing to be worried about, so now I know! In addition... her family member thrifts sewing machines and fixes them up, and she gifted me one! It's a vintage model from the 60's/70's and is solid metal, I could use it as a hefty melee weapon.
Rainy day tomorrow, so back to work on the soft goods. Time to get to know the new machine!
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Rhue_Shofytt on Mar 17, 2022, 05:02 PM
Oooh, congrats on the acquisition!! Vintage sewing machines are absolute BEASTS, they're super durable and last forever :laugh:
Also, not sure if you already have a good Sintra supplier but JPPlus sells 2x4 foot sheets on their website for $8 for 3mm and like $15ish for 6mm.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 20, 2022, 01:08 AM
Thanks Rhue! This thing is certainly a powerhouse, I'm having trouble making it go slow enough that I can guide it. When I sew, the whole house knows because it CLACKS! Feels like an old timey typewriter. Also, do its threads tangle less often, or am I just getting better at sewing?
Little update: I spent the past few days painting swatches and working on the flight suit. I'll parse through my pictures and share my swatches tomorrow. Time permitting, the flight suit will also be finished.
With the swatches done, I think I'll be officially out of the planning stage for the budget version of my kit. Sixteen pages in, it's high time I get a thread going in the Armor Construction section!
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Karson Wren on Mar 20, 2022, 10:51 AM
This is where the fun begins ;)
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 21, 2022, 02:13 AM
The fun begins with airbrushin' swatches!
For reference, I am using Spaz Stix paints in Mirror Chrome, Candy Gold, and Candy Golden Root Beer.
The fun thing about this chrome is that, right after spraying, it looks pretty nice, right?
(https://i.imgur.com/fW0Y7nJ.jpg)
But there's actually a layer of dust on top. Buff that away and...
(https://i.imgur.com/L5Bwcln.jpg)
Ooooooooh, preeeeetty...
So, about surface prep. This is notoriously difficult with chrome. ANY imperfection in the base will be enhanced, which stinks, because orange peel is pretty much guaranteed. Last year I got good results getting rid of the orange peel by wet sanding and polishing the base coat, but never got to paint chrome. I found them again and am using them as my beskar swatches, but I decided to chrome an orange peeled swatch to see how it compares.
Here's the orange peeled one:
(https://i.imgur.com/H7t0rQE.jpg)
Here it is compared to a polished one on top (the accent I tested was heavily applied Candy Orange, by the way):
(https://i.imgur.com/TzXBzY3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/k2CTaz8.jpg)
Honestly? Not bad! Kick anxiety to the curb, because even if it's not perfect, it still reads beskar. However, I think it's worth polishing, because I can't stop staring at the top one. So pretty.
So, here comes the hard part and the reason I made swatches. I know what I'm doing for beskar paint, but am still undecided on durasteel paint. I could use your opinions!
First off, let's recall some references.
Durasteel mando:
(https://i.imgur.com/RC3qShC.png)
Beskar mando:
(https://i.imgur.com/rVUrT5B.png)
Moi:
(https://i.imgur.com/sbtKj01.png)
A big theme of my kit is the visual difference between beskar and durasteel. Most of my plate surfaces are "unpainted", and even the accent paint is translucent, so you can see the finish underneath.
I have Rust-oleum Satin Nickel and Rust-oleum Metallic. Nickel is on the left, chrome is in the middle, and metallic is on the right. Does one look more realistically "metal" than the other? Which one do you think is a nice foil to the beskar?
(https://i.imgur.com/LKQSie1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6en6bxz.jpg)
Nickel has a metal flake with a subtle glittery look that can sometimes be seen in sunlight, mostly on the color layers. (This is not considered "glitter paint" and is approvable! (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=187292.msg2103567#msg2103567)). It has an interesting visual texture compared to metallic.
Metallic is flat silver. You can see some shine, but it is comparatively flat without much depth.
Here they are in inside light:
Here they are in sunlight:
So, I need opinions! What do you think? Does one look more realistically "metal" than the other? Which one do you think is a nice foil to the beskar?
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Noot Braska on Mar 21, 2022, 08:59 AM
These swatches are beautiful in their own right! Well done!
If you're looking for a true beskar look, I'd say the middle one looks the best. But just for a metal look, both the middle and the one to the right look like metal.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Cattriss Wren on Mar 21, 2022, 09:06 AM
I love them!! So nice :like: the dust covered one is really cool! Great job
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: EricL on Mar 21, 2022, 11:06 AM
They all look gorgeous! I hope any of my stuff gets such a flawless surface when I get to it. I lean toward the plain metallic (on the right) for a durasteel look. My brain interprets durasteel as an almost synthetic material, easily smelted out in mass quantities, that would have a more flat look. The stainless steel stuff I use at work has a flat kinda look to it unless it’s just been machined/polished. Once life hits the metal a while it dulls down, not so glittery.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Karson Wren on Mar 22, 2022, 02:54 PM
Wowwww, that's nice paint. :porg2:
Middle looks best to me
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 24, 2022, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the inputs, all! It's good to know your thoughts on which durasteel swatch to pick, especially EricL with your work experience. I'm glad to hear that the metallic one actually looks like worn metal, I was worried it looked too plastic-y. Gotta try out some weathering!
They all look gorgeous! I hope any of my stuff gets such a flawless surface when I get to it.
You can do it! I recommend trying your methods on swatches -- I see some errors I made here, so now I'm better prepared for the final pieces.
It occurred to me that I didn't share my methods for making these! For the sintra swatches, I sanded them lightly after shaping so the primer would have a rough surface to attach to. Then I sprayed Rust-oleum sandable filler primer on top, sanded that to get an even surface. Then sprayed Rust-Oleum gloss black performance enamel (I will probably try 2X gloss black next to see if there's any difference, I don't like how the enamel splatters and orange peels). Then for the metallic swatches, I just painted right on top of the black with no issue, it laid smoothly. The chrome on the other hand will need you to wet sand and polish the black base if you want the smoothest look possible. Of course, give the paints a day or two to cure between layers.
Making progress! Just at a slower rate than I wanted. I'm going to try to make daily update posts either here or on my soft goods thread, even if I didn't do much that day, just to keep myself on track.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: AboveAverageGeek on Mar 28, 2022, 09:14 PM
All this paint info is super helpful, please share any more swatches you create.
Title: Re: Arco's planning log: cardboard shreds and reference images abound!
Post by: Arco'thyel Wyshla on Mar 31, 2022, 07:24 PM
For sure! I'll be making some more swatches for weathering tests in the future.
For now, I've made my primary WIP (http://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?topic=214240.0)! I'm working on resizing my helmet and fixing my 3D printer bed warp, which is proving quite a challenge. I want to get the helmet printing in the next few days before the upcoming armor party.