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 British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws

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Zophar Ptay


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British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« on: Nov 13, 2017, 04:30 PM »
We have discussed adopting Clan Bylaws in the past and now is the time to formalize and vote on these before we can become an official clan.  This thread is where we will discuss changes and wording.  As this is likely going to be holding up our clan status, I propose we discuss for two weeks and vote on 1 Dec 2017 unless all OMs have agreed to the wording before then.


I have taken bylaws from a couple of clans, mainly those of Cin'ciri Verda Clan, and combined them along with other items we have discussed in the past to create an initial working document.  My specific additions were:

     - Any instance of the Cin'cri Verda bylaws where the Regional Commander was granted power has been amended to indicate that in the case of a conflict of interest, the Conclave Warden should be consulted in lieu of the Regional Commander.
     - Added clauses 9.B.i and 9.B.ii
     - Added clause 2.A.iii
    - Added Section 7


When discussing, please cite the clause you are commenting on and remember to quote anyone you are replying to as this may get very confusing.  I have posted the opening proposal on Google Docs for formatting purposes, but I can email it to anyone for whom that does not work.


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paradoxdj


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #1 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:03 PM »
Read and understood. Looks like a good set of bylaws to me.

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Zophar Ptay


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #2 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:10 PM »
We have discussed the idea of a nominal annual membership fee in the past and that was not included in these bylaws.  Do we want that in the bylaws now or add them as an amendment at a future date?

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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #3 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:14 PM »
I think if we are going to add annual dues we need to first clarify what they will be used for and how much they will be. Then weigh our options of raising clan funds in alternative ways to see what would be most effective. This doesn't rule out both having dues and raising clan funds alternatively as well.

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Zophar Ptay


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #4 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:22 PM »
Let's start with this then:    I have added Section 10 as a starting point for that discussion.  We can either strike the section entirely or modify as we decide

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Talren Adira


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #5 on: Nov 13, 2017, 07:55 PM »
Looks good to me, the annual dues actually seem like a good idea to help offset the costs we tend to incur.

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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #6 on: Nov 13, 2017, 09:51 PM »
I am in agreement for majority of the Bylaws

I am against Bylaw 10

Until the Clan can reach / exceed 40 members, we do not have a sufficient reliable "base membership" to account for a Financial officer or to receive and handle any funds for Clan projects.  I would go further and recommend The main heart of the clan (Vancouver) should have a min 30 reliable "base membership" before we consider major events that require construction and the storage of materials for the clan, or donations in funds from the membership.

I define a "Base Membership" = A core of members who have proven dedicated and loyal service to the clan for several years (say 3yrs), are not transient (moving around the city or in an out of town), and can be relied to show up for over 50% of requested invasions a year.
This could be asking a lot, but this is what we need!

As a new group starting out, I can understand the desire to want a table for Fan Expo and to do activities to the equivalent professional level as the 501st, its very exciting, the desire to show what we can do as well is very intoxicating, especially if you attended the con this weekend and saw the 501st layout.
It was quite impressive and shows what nearly a 100 members can present to the community.  It has also taken over 4 years to get to this point.

The 501st Garrisons, and RL Bases do not charge annual dues and fees to members, it's bad enough the costs we put into our suits, upkeep, and upgrades, we will lose members and have difficulty recruiting as soon as potential members here the words annual dues or fees (the amount is irrelevant)  (it's like an additional tax, we can do without) .

Remove Bylaw 10 an you have my vote. 

"Work with what we got at the beginning, allow dreams of greater representation to grow with the membership"

These are my opinions based on over 12 years of trooping, in several provinces, and having lived in this region for the majority, and watching the local membership grow from myself to the present numbers.

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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #7 on: Nov 13, 2017, 10:46 PM »
The bylaws look great.

My one concern is that, although know i would be more than happy to pay an annual fee, i am concerned that new members might not understand the need for it and will feel discouraged to join (i know it's not a lot of money, but the idea itself).

I love the idea of alternative ways to raise money. I know this is something we spoke about in the past and i think it's something we should really consider to help cover costs in the future.

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Zophar Ptay


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #8 on: Nov 14, 2017, 01:44 AM »
Until the Clan can reach / exceed 40 members, we do not have a sufficient reliable "base membership" to account for a Financial officer

That is the job of the Ver'alor, which is one of the three required officer positions.  They are responsible for clan merch and funds.

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The 501st Garrisons, and RL Bases do not charge annual dues and fees to members, it's bad enough the costs we put into our suits, upkeep, and upgrades, we will lose members and have difficulty recruiting as soon as potential members here the words annual dues or fees (the amount is irrelevant)  (it's like an additional tax, we can do without) .

This is definitely valid.   The idea of a nominal membership fee to offset operating costs has been brought up a few times by multiple people so I included it here expecting it to be the most "contentious" point.  I'd also argue that with 10 members, the dues wouldn't amount to enough to be of much use.  A single booth at Fan Expo runs almost $800 and we need at least a double if we want to bring the photobooth that we bring to all of our other events, in addition to renting transportation for said booth.  We also have a website and a storage unit for the booth which incur monthly expenses which I cover.  If those expenses could be could be distributed among the members, I wouldn't complain.  I find that saying "we have this recurring expense, could people chip in" rarely works so something more concrete would be preferred.


« Last Edit: Nov 14, 2017, 10:00 AM by Zophar Ptay » Logged
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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #9 on: Nov 14, 2017, 01:58 PM »

Read and acknowledged all, I only had two points.

Clause 9.C.
The "Mandalorian Salute"...I'm not alone in wondering what is this exactly?  I've tried Google and no joy as to what exactly it is.

Clause 10.
I think an easy solution to this problem of member dues would be to only charge OM's the membership dues and that way it doesn't discourage UM's and new recruits to join us, and once they are full members of the Clan, then the dues would be charged.
Alternatively it could be optional for UM's and new recruits, if they wish to attend a specific event on the "pay what you can" basis.

Other than that it looks great!

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paradoxdj


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #10 on: Nov 14, 2017, 08:16 PM »
Wolf, I'm not 100% sure what the salute is either but my first instinct would be the "tap your chest with a closed, palm down, fist over the heart" salute that ends up happening between members all the time at celebration or other large conventions where you run into other mandos that you don't know.

As for clause 10:
I'm on the fence for there being an annual fee, Randy does bring up a good point that had been in the back of my mind as well. At this point we want as little as possible in the way of bringing in new members. On top of that, in order for the dues to bring in enough for the clan to really do anything substantial with until we have a higher number of members the amount per member would have to be fairly high.

We should definitely only charge OMs if we do implement this now or in the future, there's no reason to charge UM's as they're not even officially mercs yet.

Until we have a larger member base it may be best to just stick with raising funds internally as we have been and not making it mandatory just yet. I think it's a good thing for us to discuss though in order to have a good, well thought out, starting point for when we get to a point where we want to implement it.

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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #11 on: Nov 14, 2017, 08:34 PM »
I think an easy solution to this problem of member dues would be to only charge OM's the membership dues   and that way it doesn't discourage UM's and new recruits to join us,  and once they are full members of the Clan, then the dues would be charged.

The above statement could be interpreted as;
Congratulations!  Your a Tier 3 OM!   You get the honour of paying dues, btw they are mandatory  :laugh: :o >:( :P, while certain members who have been Tier 2 n 1 for years have an option.... not a very promising incentive, unless tier 1 an 2 members are made to pay fees that are twice the amount.... again not a very promising incentive.

$800 for a table?!?   
Lets be realistic, we don't have nearly the manpower to fund, man an support such a project presently.
10 OM's X $10 fees = $100 n Zophar want 2 tables!!

We would be better off negotiating some kind of inclusion projects with the ORG for a couple years.
From what I saw this year, acting as a team (or teams) in the Droid Hunt, participating in Blast a Trooper, and the photo booth, would help all groups.

If you want to fund projects;
As a bonified merc who collects patches an coins to the extreme, patches an coin runs are a very good option, it gets our unit logo an name out to the MMCC membership and to the Legions. 

We shouldn't be looking at a table for Fan Expo we should be in full ADVERTISE n RECRUIT ;D mode!

There is nothing stronger for recruitment than us getting out there and;
Talk shop expressing your excitement for the group and talking about your kit with the public,
Hand out member cards / unit flyers, posters, banners, buttons, keychains, coasters, and plastic mando money credits with our logo an website, could be positive funding projects, every member who pitches in can benefit from keeping some of the SWAG for themselves. 
Each member buys a lot from the run and they can hand them out at invasions and to interested parties, anywhere as they desire, to get the Clans name and pressence out there, 
Organise and advertise a "Meet the MMCC at (insert blank)", (Titan Garrison of the Seattle area did that an recruited 20 plus members in a year),
Accept as many public invasions throughout the year as possible, 
Participate in cross MMCC Legion events through out the year,
Make use of public media, FB (already out there) Twitter etc,
Encourage family recruitment, underage members could be Journeyman mercs or something related.

A lot of the above is already enacted, however that's how we will get our future booth at Fan Expo and pay expenses.

### members = increased abilities an resources for the clan,
a "future" merc could have storage space saving us the cost of storage fees,
a "future" merc could have the vehicle (or have a contact that could be a friend of the clan) to transport props an sets to future events (that's how it's done in the Legions an other clans)

Please take my comments constructively, I am trying to provide a positive focus for our future, but again I am against mandatory fee's an dues, for 10 people.

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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #12 on: Nov 15, 2017, 12:50 AM »
Given the push-back lets strike the idea of dues for now. I can totally get the points others are making and once we have things more settled we can perhaps look at alternative funding sources again  for bankrolling items like cons.
 As this particular thread is for discussion of the suggested By-laws, we should perhaps take fund raising and recruitment ideas (which sound awesome by the by) and hang onto them or create a different topic in which folks can discuss the ideas to reduce chatter in this thread that is not immediately related to the By-laws to make things easier on admins who have to wade through all this later ;)

« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017, 01:08 AM by Talren Adira » Logged

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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #13 on: Nov 15, 2017, 01:21 AM »
Personally I have no problem paying dues to be a part of the club, however at this juncture, I do feel like we should table the dues discussion for now- to be revisited at a later date. 

For clan funds- once we are officially a clan- I know I would like to see a clan patch, shirts, coins etc- which will help fill our coffers and alleviate some of the costs associated with the clan.

Last year, we had a table and photo booth at Fanexpo- and we raised quite a bit of money. This year was a no-go, however it is one of the largest events of the year I think it's important that we keep attempting it, as well as the smaller events that are frequently held. The more events we go to, the better, as you said, Randy. 

As for recruiting I always make sure to talk to everyone we can while passing out stickers, pins and temporary tattoos, and I know most OMs in the group do the same. we're up from 8 recruits and  4  OM under two years ago, to almost 30 active recruits (15ish  not active) and 10 OM. That speaks well to our recruiting abilities 🙂

I agree, also with us continuing to pursue a relationship with other local groups. Trooping with other fans always a great time.

I apologize for the off-subject post.

Zophar Ptay


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Re: British Columbia Stronghold: Adoption of Clan Bylaws
« Reply #14 on: Nov 15, 2017, 01:37 AM »
I realize that given the text medium, some of this may come out as combative.  I assure you none of it is, I am simply answering concerns.   I am also not willing to defend Section 10 so unless someone steps up to champion it, this will be my last post on the subject and I'll agree to strike it from the bylaws.   I put it forward because the idea was floated in the past and I thought it should be addressed formally.  I also personally think that if we were to do it, it would be easier to implement now than later, but who knows.



We should definitely only charge OMs if we do implement this now or in the future, there's no reason to charge UM's as they're not even officially mercs yet.

Absolutely agree, recruits are not members.   We try to make recruits feel welcome but in the end, there IS a difference between a member and a recruit.  Besides, recruits should put that money towards their kit :P


The above statement could be interpreted as;
Congratulations!  Your a Tier 3 OM!   You get the honour of paying dues, btw they are mandatory  :laugh: :o >:( :P, while certain members who have been Tier 2 n 1 for years have an option...

I have no idea what a Tier I/II/III member is... you are either a member or a recruit.

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$800 for a table?!?   
Lets be realistic, we don't have nearly the manpower to fund, man an support such a project presently.

It went well enough last year with fewer people that we were going to do it again this year.  We raised $800 for BCCH last year

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As a bonified merc who collects patches an coins to the extreme, patches an coin runs are a very good option, it gets our unit logo an name out to the MMCC membership and to the Legions. 

Absolutely!    Can't wait to get official so we can actually do merch runs.   :D

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We shouldn't be looking at a table for Fan Expo we should be in full ADVERTISE n RECRUIT ;D mode!

This one confuses me too.  What is Fan Expo if not "full recruit and advertise mode"?  It's the biggest event of the year, getting our name out is critical to growth

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Each member buys a lot from the run and they can hand them out at invasions and to interested parties

Matt and I have both tried that.  I'm sitting on 10,00 rack cards and 20,000 business cards that nobody wants to chip in for;' Matt got stuck with a con pack that nobody wanted to chip in for.  Asking simply hasn't worked.

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Accept as many public invasions throughout the year as possible, 

We do.  You should join us some time


Given the push-back lets strike the idea of dues for now.

Agreed.  I'm counting at least 4 OMs who have expressed concerns for it so i propose that unless someone wants to step up to champion it and defend its inclusion, we strike it.  I like the idea, but not enough to champion it.   Anyone care to step up?

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