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 Recreating Whistling Birds

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Corbin Das


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Recreating Whistling Birds
« on: Feb 07, 2020, 02:01 AM »
We all know the scene.


 I'm wanting to have "birds" on my gauntlets that will light up blue like that, and even extend and retract slightly, like in the show. My question is.... How would you get semi-translucent "darts", that look somewhat metallic, until you light them up with a blue LED? I would think the darts themselves would be acrylic rods or something similar, backlit with LEDs. Making them look like Beskar, until they're lit up, that's what I'm wondering.

 Is there a spray on mirror tint, like you might use to make glass or plastic reflective? I thought about trying to roll mylar into teenie tiny cones, and use those, but so far, no luck. Kinda fragile too.


Thoughts?

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Foxtrot


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #1 on: Feb 07, 2020, 06:16 PM »
Possibly one way to do it is using acrylic rods like you describe, and painting the exposed parts (save a tiny portion of the tips) metallic silver. Leave the base in the gauntlet unpainted as well and have the LEDs shine through the base of the rod and illuminate just the tips.


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Kurz


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #2 on: Feb 08, 2020, 02:32 AM »
Don't know what happened to the other post but I'll write it again... I have 2 main ideas:
1. Acrilic rods, sand the tip and backlit with LED
2. Some kind of hollow metal rod (rollerball tips? Afraid of the ink when opening them), with nano(micro?) LED on them.


In both cases, the retracting will be provided by this little guy


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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #3 on: Feb 09, 2020, 05:56 PM »
LEDs shine through the base of the rod and illuminate just the tips.



 I like the idea of just having the tips shine. Some experimentation is in order.

Don't know what happened to the other post but I'll write it again...

 Moved to the electronics section. Old thread deleted. Sorry. I like the linear actuator. How long of a throw does it have?

« Last Edit: Feb 09, 2020, 11:38 PM by Corbin Das » Logged

Kurz


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #4 on: Feb 10, 2020, 03:24 AM »
How long of a throw does it have?

Something like 2.5 cm. Hoping that's enough

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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #5 on: Feb 10, 2020, 07:38 PM »
Something like 2.5 cm. Hoping that's enough

 That'd be right at 1 inch.  Should be plenty of room for the birds. I'm messing with an idea to get them to open like they do in the show. I'll update this post with a drawing in a bit.

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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #6 on: Feb 11, 2020, 03:32 AM »
If you go the acrylic rod route, you could wrap them in aluminum tape. It's usually quite "shiny" and won't allow light bleed the way paint might.

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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #7 on: Feb 11, 2020, 10:52 PM »
If you go the acrylic rod route, you could wrap them in aluminum tape. It's usually quite "shiny" and won't allow light bleed the way paint might.

 Hadn't thought of that. I picked up some metallic "buffing paint" the other day to see how t works too. Basically, you paint it, let it dry, then buff it with a cloth to get the metallic sheen. I'll let everyone know how it works.

 The idea I had for extending and retracting the birds was having each group of them connected via a strip, band or some other rigid fixture. Along the bottom of each strip, I was thinking there could be a length of elastic, surgical tubing, or some other stretchy material, secured on each end of the strip. The single missile on the tip would just need a single spring to keep it retracted.



 Once you have them arranged in the launcher "cone", I think the easiest way to limit their extension is to just have them long enough to stick out the back of the cone, and have the base of each dart fitted with a base that's wider than the hole. Kind of like the head on a tack. Perhaps, the strip connecting them together could just use a single stop. Not sure what method would be best.

 Then you'll have a flat section of metal with a set of pins sticking up, that will grab the elastic bands in two spots. Almost like fingers pulling a bow string, only they'll be pulling each of the elastic sections (and hence each band of darts) forward. Each section only needs to move like 1/4", if that. Once a section moves the 1/4", it will hit a stop. The flat section with the pins will continue forward however, engaging the second band of darts, and bringing them forward. They'll hit a stop when they're forward, but the flat section will still continue forward to bring the final single dart forward.

This method will keep increasing the tension on the two outer rings of darts, as it stretches the elastic more and more, engaging the final dart at the tip. Shouldn't be an issue though. We don't need a ton of tension to keep the birds up inside the cone. Even some ponytail elastic may be enough, though I'd probably double or triple up on those.  We can always fine tune things as we go.

Anyway, that's my idea. This method would allow for high or low tech to extend/retract the whistling birds. You could just have a loop going around a couple fingers, from the gauntlet (under a glove?), and extend them by flexing your wrist. You could utilize a linear actuator, like Kurz has.  Air pressure, servos, a cord running up your sleeve, or whatever. Them mechanism should lend itself to your method.




If we have electrical contacts on the stops, it shouldn't be too hard to get the tips to light up blue when they're extended. If you REALLY want to make things difficult, a red/blue/green LED can use the blue when they're extended, then switch to both the red and green to fire. Red and green light will mix to make a yellow/amber. If you want to complicate things EVEN MORE, you might be able to arrange it to rapidly fire several birds, in sequence, having them turn from blue to yellow, then off. The fired darts wouldn't retract (with this design), but combine it with a sound board that makes the "pew pew" noises, and it would be pretty cool.

 I didn't draw the flat piece of metal, just the pins (5 black dots). The elastic is drawn in red and yellow.  The specific design can be modified to suit, to a degree. The main thing I was trying to do was show how the elastic allows each section to extend in turn. A separate spring may be required for each section, for when the flat metal piece isn't pushing them forward, so they don't rattle. Not sure.



Definitely open to thoughts and suggestions. Wish I had a 3D printer to try some prototype ideas.  :cookie:

« Last Edit: Mar 09, 2020, 11:09 PM by Corbin Das » Logged

Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #8 on: Mar 09, 2020, 10:00 PM »
 Working on a second method that uses (I hope) commonly found ink pen springs.  I don't have a working GIF yet, but it basically has the different rods be different lengths, so that when fully pushed forward, each row would extend to the right location. I even came up with a method for being able to physically remove or install one (or several) of the birds, and have them magnetically hold, and light up.

 I'll post a drawing shortly. Now for the fun part..... does anyone know of a way to trigger LEDs to rapidly light up in a sequence? Looking to have 4 or 5 of the birds "launch" and turn the LED yellow, then go off. I don't know how to program an Arduino, unfortunately.

Sort of like this:



EDIT TO ADD: I've been working on the assumption that the birds were blue when armed, as they looked blue on my TV. After looking at some of the videos and GIFs though, they look either light blue or even a cool white. What color do YOU think they should be? Thanks!


« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2020, 12:49 AM by Corbin Das » Logged

Kurz


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #9 on: Mar 10, 2020, 03:51 AM »
Working on a second method that uses (I hope) commonly found ink pen springs.  I don't have a working GIF yet, but it basically has the different rods be different lengths, so that when fully pushed forward, each row would extend to the right location. I even came up with a method for being able to physically remove or install one (or several) of the birds, and have them magnetically hold, and light up.

Is it possible to learn this power?  :o

I'm not a pro, but I'm not aware of any other way for lighting the LEDs in sequence except for an arduino. It would be an easy code to write though.

And btw I went with blue too

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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #10 on: Mar 15, 2020, 06:29 PM »
I'm not a pro, but I'm not aware of any other way for lighting the LEDs in sequence except for an arduino. It would be an easy code to write though.

 An Arduino would probably be the best option, though (being the glutton for frustration that I am) I have been working on a completely non driver setup. So far, it's waaaaay more complicated than it needs to be. I've found that stainless fuel line for RC cars is about the right size. Still experimenting with SMD LEDs, in tri color (RGB). They have 4 wires, 3 for each color and a common ground. If you power all 3 colors, it's white, drop the blue, then the red and green mix to be amber/yellow. Resistor the red and green and all 3 would make a cooler white/ pale blue.

 Once I get the physical extension/retraction simplified, I'll see what needs to be done for the lighting. I'll draw up a diagram an post it in this thread, I'm very open to ideas or suggestions.

EDIT TO ADD:   Let's see if my idea translates well. Sorry for my lack of eloquence, but I'll try to describe it as best I can...

 Each stainless tube will have a plastic cap that will likely be either clear or sanded to a diffused white. Behind the tips will be a red/blue/green SMD LED. They're incredibly small. Each color has a wire, as well as a common ground, so 4 wires per LED.  Light up all 3 colors and you pretty much get white. If you want it a cooler white, you can add a small resistor to the red and green wires and that would let the blue be slightly more prominent (cool white).

 
What I'm about to describe only pertains to the birds you wish to have "fire". In this case, the outer 4. The ones that will not fire will not need this.

The + wires for the red and green, as well as the ground, will come out the side of each tube. There will be a small hole/slot cut into the tubing near the back half, inside the gauntlet, so you won't see them. The +  blue wire will be soldered to the body of the tube itself. Probably easiest to have a metal plug you can solder it to, then stuff into the back of the tube. So, to get the blue to light, it will require + current to the tube itself.

 Whatever pushing block  you use to push the birds forward (I'm working on a few different versions), will have a semi circular slot cut into it, where the "firing" birds are. Immediately behind the "pushing block" with the semi circular slot will be a metal plate with a + charge to it. That plate will light up the blue element, so long as it's in contact with the back of the tubing. Now for the fun part...

 The + charged plate can rotate to let each piece of tubing spring back into the housing, out of sight. When the plate rotates, each "bird" will lose the + charge for its blue element. This will turn the tip yellow/amber, indicating it's firing. As the bird retracts into the gauntlet/cone section, the yellow light will disappear with it.  If we want the yellow to completely turn off after the bird is fully retracted, we can probably have some type of mechanism that cuts the ground line for each bird when it fully rearward. A momentary, normally closed switch would do the trick.

 So, to summarize, there's a metal plate incorporated into the block that pushes the birds to the forward position. It's got a + charge to light up the blue element of the birds it pushes forward. You have a servo or something similar rotate this metal plate, when ready to fire. As the plate rotates, each bird will lose the power to its blue element, turning the tip yellow. The spring on each bird will quickly retract the bird, making it look like it's fired out of the gauntlet.

Here's a quick GIF I drew up. Hope this explains it better.




« Last Edit: Mar 15, 2020, 08:15 PM by Corbin Das » Logged
Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #11 on: Mar 17, 2020, 12:07 PM »
Wow. I'm watching this thread very closely! I've built my vambrace, and had a simpler concept for the whistling birds, but I may have to modify my original concept to follow your lead on this! Well thought out and I'm looking forward to seeing what your ideas eventually lead to.
Do you have anything working yet as a prototype???

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Kurz


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #12 on: Mar 17, 2020, 03:04 PM »
So, to summarize, there's a metal plate incorporated into the block that pushes the birds to the forward position. It's got a + charge to light up the blue element of the birds it pushes forward. You have a servo or something similar rotate this metal plate, when ready to fire. As the plate rotates, each bird will lose the power to its blue element, turning the tip yellow. The spring on each bird will quickly retract the bird, making it look like it's fired out of the gauntlet.
Please show us! Vod, your plans are awesome! This way you would have to disassemble everithing to reset the "fired" birds, am I right? I would be more than happy to understand how to deploy, light and retract them correctly  :laugh:

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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #13 on: Mar 17, 2020, 10:25 PM »
I could see making the “stepped” separate extensions easily enough by having three tiers for the birds, with two different strength springs between the three tiers. The weakest spring would separate the front-most with the middle section, and the stronger spring would be between the middle and the back tier. Then, when pushed forward they would collapse accordingly. Of course, stops could also be used to lock them into each step too.

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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #14 on: Mar 17, 2020, 11:05 PM »
Do you have anything working yet as a prototype???

No working setup yet. I'm still collecting parts.

This way you would have to disassemble everything to reset the "fired" birds, am I right?

I would have it so they'd reset after all the birds are retracted.

I could see making the “stepped” separate extensions easily enough by having three tiers for the birds, with two different strength springs between the three tiers.

That could possibly work. The design I'm currently going with has springs of the same strength, just with different travel allowance. The first row (outer ring) get extended first. While the middle row is engaged, the "pushing block" continues to compress the spring on the outer ring, though the dart itself has hit its stop. Then, when the middle dart hits its stop, the block continues to push forward, still compressing the outer and middle row, while it pushes the single center dart forward.

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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #15 on: Mar 18, 2020, 11:11 AM »
How are you planning on building the birds? Turning aluminum on a microlathe maybe?

I've 3d printed a block of them that has them all in good alignment, I'm thinking about modifying them so that they step per your plans. I was planning on using some fiberoptic and extending them through the hollow cores on my model, and then clear-dipping and shaping the ends in clear enamel or something.

https://i.imgur.com/e1hq2gL.mp4


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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #16 on: Mar 18, 2020, 07:47 PM »
How are you planning on building the birds? Turning aluminum on a microlathe maybe?

GREAT looking gauntlet!

  While I do have a lathe and milling machine, I'd much rather not have to machine them. I found some ready made stainless tubing that should work.


They are 4mm OD with a 3mm ID.

Here is the 3D printed "housing" I'm playing around with. Might eventually machine something, but that would get expensive to do, en masse.


Here's the Ebay auction where I got them:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Silver-304-Stainless-Steel-Capillary-Tube-4mm-OD-3mm-ID-250mm-Length/352989014448?hash=item522fc8e9b0:g:OHkAAOSwf4leXIuv


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Corbin Das


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #17 on: Mar 25, 2020, 12:59 AM »
 I hope this makes more sense. Please refer to the GIF...



Essentially, the "push block" consists of a rod with a sleeve over it, which also has another sleeve over THAT. The cosmetics might change, but the principle should be the same. The central rod is pushed forward, pulling the other 2 sleeves with it. The outer ring of birds get engaged first. After they are compressed the proper distance, a stop on the birds will halt any further forward movement of the outer ring. The central rod will continue pushing forward, bringing the central sleeve with it. This will extend the second ring of birds. After they hit their stop, the second sleeve will stay there, even though the rod will continue forward, extending the single bird in the tip.

 After everything is extended, if you wish to fire some birds, a section on the outer sleeve (or maybe the entire sleeve itself) will rotate. Doing so will allow individual birds to spring back into the cone, in rapid succession . If you're feeling ambitious, you COULD have LEDs illuminating the tips of each bird. Blue or whitish-blue would look pretty good, I think.

 Now, for the true masochist out there, there IS a way to not only have them light up when extended, but change color to yellowish when "fired". They would only be visible as yellow for an instant before they fully retracted into the cone. By the way, in a red green blue (RGB) LED, mixing all 3 colors gives you white, more or less. Dropping the blue element would mix the red and the green, which in the light spectrum, gives a yellow. It's different when mixing paint.

 Imagine an SMD (really small) RGB LED, with a common ground, illuminating the tip on each bird. Have the + wire for the blue attached to a tiny metal plug, on the back of the bird. I'd probably have it isolated with a piece of plastic, like a stereo plug, but it might not be required. Either way, The section of the pushing block that engages the birds capable of "firing"  would have a + charge, thus illuminating the blue element, while the red and the green would be hard wired to illuminate when extended.

 Rotating the charged plate would not only sequentially break electrical contact with the 4 birds you'd be firing, turning the tip yellow, but it would allow them to retract out of sight, as if they had been fired. When the last bird fires, which would probably happen in something like one second after the first was fired, you could have it hit a normally closed momentary switch, that could be hooked to the ground for the firing birds. That would turn off all light coming from them.

 The non-firing birds would stay lit up blue, until they were fully retracted inside the cone. Only the firing birds would need the red and green element in them. To have the colors match on all the birds though, you might wanna have the RGB LEDs inside all the birds, but only use the blue on the non-firing ones. If you wanted a more whitish-blue, that's do-able too. Just have all 3 elements lit up and add resistors to the red and the green. That'd make it almost white, with a very light bluish hue. You'd want to match the color on the firing birds regardless.

Hope this all makes sense.

 What's next? Probably a removable bird in the tip, so you can "load" it like the Armorer did. Since it wouldn't fire, all you'd need is to have the body hooked up to the ground, with the blue (or whatever you decide) hooked up to a metal plug on the back (electronically isolated, like a stereo plug). Make sure the plug is magnetic though. There'd be a contact inside the cone that the bird's body would touch in order to get the ground. Inside, you'll have a section for it to contact, with a strong magnet attached.  Once inserted, the bird will be attracted into the magnetic contact and light up. I'll draw something up.


 Thoughts or suggestions?

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Yodamann


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #18 on: Apr 02, 2020, 12:00 PM »
It seems like an Arduino would be way less hassle and way less finicky. Moving mechanisms to power LEDs sounds like more trouble then it's worth, especially since lighting LEDs is pretty much the first tutorial in Arduino programming.

Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #19 on: Jun 07, 2020, 12:56 PM »
Any updates to this???

I'm redesigning my whistling birds to allow for the "stepped" extension. They're ready to 3D print for testing, but alas, I'm printing my right vambrace and it's a 34 hour print....

« Last Edit: Jun 07, 2020, 03:41 PM by BearCubsTeacher » Logged

OhThatOneGuy


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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #20 on: Jan 02, 2023, 11:14 AM »
I know this thread has a couple years of dust on it, but I am a bonafide new guy here, and I'm just diving right in.
I am currently working on my own "working" whispering birds. I am curious if anyone has a schematic/drawing/sketch of the electronics?

I've read a lot of great ideas for the projectiles, themselves, which is a great help, as well.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

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Re: Recreating Whistling Birds
« Reply #21 on: Jan 02, 2023, 11:40 AM »
I know this thread has a couple years of dust on it, but I am a bonafide new guy here, and I'm just diving right in.
I am currently working on my own "working" whispering birds. I am curious if anyone has a schematic/drawing/sketch of the electronics?

I've read a lot of great ideas for the projectiles, themselves, which is a great help, as well.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

I'm not sure on the diameter but push rods for engines without iverhead cams might be a good diameter, they are smooth, they are typically hollow and have small holes at the end for lights. They might need to be cut down but they'd be cheep as long as you are willing to tear down an older enging block at a junk yard. I've got a set from a 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix that my son managed to mess up badly. I wouldn't buy them new.

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