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 New Armor WIP ~advice welcome

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AboveAverageGeek


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New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« on: Feb 07, 2022, 07:23 PM »
Hello Everyone!

My name is Aeon and here is the general concept for my kit (w/o weathering for ease of viewing). I have a lot of cosplay experience (though no armor), so I'm not feeling too worried about my soft parts, weapons, and paint job. As far as a name in Mando'a I am currently looking at Mir'wer as a combination of the archaic word for Eon and a prefix commonly associated with brain, inteligence, thought etc. I'm mostly confused about conventions for last names, but perhaps this just requires more research.



My main concern is fitting the armor to my body type as I am quite small, (5'2" and ~108lbs), are there any helpful threads anyone knows of?

Additionally, I modified the visor in mando creator, any obvious reasons this style wouldn't fit CRLs?

Thanks for any and all input! More to come soon.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #1 on: Feb 07, 2022, 10:23 PM »
Suy cuy'gar!

Welcome to the group. The only thing I can really see as a potential problem is what era you are trying to fit into. Knowing where you want your armor to fit will help the planning process significantly. Each era has their own little differences. You can find the CRLs and different eras here: http://mandalorianmercs.org/get-involved/costume-requirements/

Mandalorian names seem to follow the naming convention most humans have. Basically, family ties as far as I can understand Fett (Ordo, Kryze, Vizsla, Saxon, et cetera). Maybe someone with a more extensive knowledge in the lore can explain the nuance, but it looks like affiliation to me. Here is an online name generator I found that could be of some use: https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/sw-mandalorian-names.php

I wish I was an expert on sizing, but I usually I take measurements of every axis I can. Basically, keep the ratio of the armor piece and scale to fit. For the chest-plate, too big will bleed into the belt-line, neck, and/or over the armpits. Definitely start with taking paper cutouts of the armor and seeing if the look meets the expectations.

Here is the parent forum for tutorials. This has been very helpful for me, personally.
https://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?board=740.0

Great concept and I hope this helps!

Arco'thyel Wyshla


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #2 on: Feb 08, 2022, 01:39 AM »
Wow, what a cool paintjob!

Mir'wer is a great name, it's neat that you're using proper Mando'a. I just threw together syllables I liked the sound of. :laugh: One suggestion to keep in mind as you pick a last name is the number of syllables. Mando names have a tendency of having three syllables: Boba Fett, Jango Fett, Din Djarin, Paz Vizsla, Pre Vizsla, Koska Reeves, etc. Though this certainly isn't a hard-and-fast-rule (Bo-Katan Kryze, Fenn Rau, Rook Kast, etc.), so don't worry too much about it. I say with a six-syllable name... :P

For fitting the armor to you, that will depend on if you do 3D printing or sintra. For sintra you could make paper and cardboard templates as Yorwoin suggested, but 3D printing is trickier. There are apps where you make a model of yourself then size the plates appropriately, but I'm not familiar with them.

As far as CRLs go, I'd like to have more folks weigh in, but since you have a Post-Imperial chest plate, I think you look good for that era so long as you have one more lower body plate (a kidney plate or tasset could be hidden from view here). I don't anticipate the visor shape being an issue; you fit the 2/3 rule. I'm not familiar with the helmet base, so make sure it has keyslots in the back!

I noticed the cape is a different color around the neck -- do you have a cape design in mind?

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"Visit Mandalore before Mandalore visits you. Take home some souvenirs—a slab of uj cake and a smack in the mouth." ―Baltan Carid

"Don’t take this the wrong way you guys, but uh, Mandalorians are crazy." ―Ezra Bridger

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #3 on: Feb 08, 2022, 04:08 PM »
Welcome to the group. The only thing I can really see as a potential problem is what era you are trying to fit into. Knowing where you want your armor to fit will help the planning process significantly. Each era has their own little differences. You can find the CRLs and different eras here: http://mandalorianmercs.org/get-involved/costume-requirements/

Mandalorian names seem to follow the naming convention most humans have. Basically, family ties as far as I can understand Fett (Ordo, Kryze, Vizsla, Saxon, et cetera). Maybe someone with a more extensive knowledge in the lore can explain the nuance, but it looks like affiliation to me. Here is an online name generator I found that could be of some use: https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/sw-mandalorian-names.php

I wish I was an expert on sizing, but I usually I take measurements of every axis I can. Basically, keep the ratio of the armor piece and scale to fit. For the chest-plate, too big will bleed into the belt-line, neck, and/or over the armpits. Definitely start with taking paper cutouts of the armor and seeing if the look meets the expectations.

Here is the parent forum for tutorials. This has been very helpful for me, personally.
https://mandalorianmercs.org/forum/index.php?board=740.0

Great concept and I hope this helps!

Thanks for the response, definitely helpful. As far as era goes, I definitely find myself drawn to the post-imperial era the most and that is the era that I am planning on having my first kit fall into. Lack of widespread/easily accessible canon for this era I think is both a blessing and a curse, but I'm excited to get going. Paper/cardboard mockups for armor are absolutely a must before I start cutting/molding my sintra.

Wow, what a cool paintjob!

Mir'wer is a great name, it's neat that you're using proper Mando'a. I just threw together syllables I liked the sound of. :laugh: One suggestion to keep in mind as you pick a last name is the number of syllables. Mando names have a tendency of having three syllables: Boba Fett, Jango Fett, Din Djarin, Paz Vizsla, Pre Vizsla, Koska Reeves, etc. Though this certainly isn't a hard-and-fast-rule (Bo-Katan Kryze, Fenn Rau, Rook Kast, etc.), so don't worry too much about it. I say with a six-syllable name... :P

For fitting the armor to you, that will depend on if you do 3D printing or sintra. For sintra you could make paper and cardboard templates as Yorwoin suggested, but 3D printing is trickier. There are apps where you make a model of yourself then size the plates appropriately, but I'm not familiar with them.

As far as CRLs go, I'd like to have more folks weigh in, but since you have a Post-Imperial chest plate, I think you look good for that era so long as you have one more lower body plate (a kidney plate or tasset could be hidden from view here). I don't anticipate the visor shape being an issue; you fit the 2/3 rule. I'm not familiar with the helmet base, so make sure it has keyslots in the back!

I noticed the cape is a different color around the neck -- do you have a cape design in mind?

The insight about 3 syllable names is super cool, it's something I hadn't noticed before but now that you point it out, I keep seeing examples of it. As far as armor goes, I probably will be doing some combo of sintra and 3d printing. I have access to a family member's printer, but it has a small print bed so it would require printing in many different pieces. I went to a local sign store that agreed to give me their foam PVC scraps for cheap, so I'm not too stressed about acquiring materials which is nice.

Cape wise: so far, the plan is to have the two sections you pointed out be different pieces. The purple/lavender section mostly serving to help mask the gaps between the actual cape and the armor as well as some future electronic plans.

As someone also working in the post-imp CRLs I quite appreciate your insights.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #4 on: Feb 08, 2022, 08:44 PM »
3D printing can be a bit tricky when sizing since the slicer only really knows the XYZ dimensions in regards to sizing. I usually design my own armor in a CAD software, so I have room to move when modeling my proportions. Reference images and multiple measurements means I can really tune proportions. However, if you are downloading files, then do test prints before committing to a large one that takes days to complete (nothing worse than finding the print won't work). For my knees (Jango style), I printed the very top rim at varying sizes. Eventually, I found a size that fit around my knee an gave me adequate space for velcro and/or straps.

People mainly print their helmet and gauntlets, then sintra the rest of their armor panels. 3D printed armor panels can be extremely temperamental to mold with a heat-gun. I have done it successfully, but it is probably best to use the paper-to-sintra method.

Second Son


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #5 on: Feb 08, 2022, 09:02 PM »
For P/I the 'four lower body armor' count is if you skip on the standard minimum of cod+knees, but Aeon's concept looks like it has a cod plate and knees (Shnees+cod also works). Skipping the cod means you start counting knees, shins, thighs, tassets, etc to get to 4. It feels odd to me to have additional arm armor but just the minimum lower body armor, a bit unbalanced. Granted, since you're 'optimized for scale' most enemy strikes are coming down from above so leg armor may not be as big of a concern.

Otherwise: love the colors and the almost-camo patterning. It makes me think of snake patterns without being an overt snakeprint; don't know if that's what you had in mind but I like it.

Don't worry about your physical stature, you'd need to build to and modify your plates if you were 6-0 / 215 lbs of muscle, or 5-8 / 250 and built for comfort, or....etc. You just build it to fit the size and shape your body has, and template adjustments shouldn't be a big shift from what you've done for other cosplays.

For the custom visor, best to get ahead of that and ask your ruus'alor and possibly fill out a Q&A form. To me, it appears to meet the 2/3 requirement for the vertical slot but I am neither expert nor authority.

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #6 on: Feb 08, 2022, 09:14 PM »
People mainly print their helmet and gauntlets, then sintra the rest of their armor panels. 3D printed armor panels can be extremely temperamental to mold with a heat-gun. I have done it successfully, but it is probably best to use the paper-to-sintra method.

That's the plan! I started messing around with helmet sizing in a CAD program today and split it into sections small enough for me to actually work with (I've got an Ender 3) If all goes to plan, I should start a test print tonight. Hopefully I'll get to post an update tomorrow. Sizing wise I decided that slightly too large was better than slightly too small. I want room for fans, and eventually a microphone/headphones. If I run into width CRL issues I can always modify my shoulders to appear larger so my ratio still looks correct.

For P/I the 'four lower body armor' count is if you skip on the standard minimum of cod+knees, but Aeon's concept looks like it has a cod plate and knees (Shnees+cod also works). Skipping the cod means you start counting knees, shins, thighs, tassets, etc to get to 4. It feels odd to me to have additional arm armor but just the minimum lower body armor, a bit unbalanced. Granted, since you're 'optimized for scale' most enemy strikes are coming down from above so leg armor may not be as big of a concern.

Otherwise: love the colors and the almost-camo patterning. It makes me think of snake patterns without being an overt snakeprint; don't know if that's what you had in mind but I like it.

Don't worry about your physical stature, you'd need to build to and modify your plates if you were 6-0 / 215 lbs of muscle, or 5-8 / 250 and built for comfort, or....etc. You just build it to fit the size and shape your body has, and template adjustments shouldn't be a big shift from what you've done for other cosplays.

For the custom visor, best to get ahead of that and ask your ruus'alor and possibly fill out a Q&A form. To me, it appears to meet the 2/3 requirement for the vertical slot but I am neither expert nor authority.

After further review of CRLs regarding the visor, I think I'm good, but the initial helmet print doesn't have the modifications just in case. I plan to reach out to my ruus'alor tomorrow. I adore the term "optimized for scale", I'll have to start using it. As far as paint/patterning goes, I wasn't actually designing around a snake-print but I also like the affect. Mostly I just like triangles. Thanks for the input.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #7 on: Feb 08, 2022, 09:21 PM »
Ay, I run an Ender 3 too. They are pretty good but can be a bit quirky with the Z motor. What filament do you plan on printing with?

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #8 on: Feb 08, 2022, 09:31 PM »
Ay, I run an Ender 3 too. They are pretty good but can be a bit quirky with the Z motor. What filament do you plan on printing with?

For now? Whatever we have on hand, which after quickly running to check, is 1.75mm standard PLA. Not necessarily ideal, but it'll work.
Luckily for me our ender hasn't had any issues to date vis a vi the Z motor. Fingers crossed that continues. At least I have someone working from home that can check on the print while I'm at class and abort if anything starts to go terribly wrong.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #9 on: Feb 08, 2022, 09:39 PM »
PLA is pretty good. Low glass-transition temperature, but paint, fiberglass, and general reinforcement can mitigate that (just don't leave it in the car lol). Sounds like you have a good working plan!

You can always move to PETG later. I would just stay away from ABS if you can help it.

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #10 on: Feb 09, 2022, 11:36 PM »
Update of the tiniest caliber.
Finally started the first print for my helmet (migraines are a -censored-), and so far, no major catastrophes, so fingers crossed it makes it through the night okay.

Also, I attached a pic of my unmodified nerf blasters from before I started to fiddle with them, just for reference. I found a couple threads modifying these specific weapons that should be helpful, but this is my first time modifying a nerf weapon, so any sage advice is welcome. Mostly I've just gone at them with an exacto knife, a screwdriver, a shucking knife, some sandpaper, and a whole lot of enthusiasm.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #11 on: Feb 09, 2022, 11:56 PM »
Off to a good start by the looks of it!

Looks like the brim is coming up on the front-most piece a little, but you should be fine. That happened on my helmet print, too.

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #12 on: Feb 10, 2022, 12:35 AM »
 
Off to a good start by the looks of it!

Looks like the brim is coming up on the front-most piece a little, but you should be fine. That happened on my helmet print, too.
Yeah, I'm not too worried, that front left side always rides a little high no matter how often or how much you adjust it. So far it doesn't seem to be causing problems in the print itself.

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #13 on: Feb 10, 2022, 09:31 PM »
Sigh..... bad news gang. Brother managed to hit the switch for the printer, and I was unable to recover the print despite my attempts to modify the gcode effectively. Still the little bit that did print does serve as a proof of concept so I'm still excited. Attempt #2 has just begun. As far as my sintra goes, the sign store should be getting back to me soon which is exciting if a bit daunting. Tomorrow hopefully is the beginning of cardboard mockups.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #14 on: Feb 11, 2022, 09:51 AM »
Bummer; snags are bound to occur. Regardless, looking forward to the concepts!

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #15 on: Feb 11, 2022, 11:19 PM »
Update of the day! Began working on some chest armor mockups.

I'm a bit worried about CRLs but I reached out to my senior clan members who should be getting back to me soon.
As far as the print goes it's looking good! No snags so far this go-round.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UPDATE:
It hasn't been 24 hours, but daily updates give me motivation so here we are! Print is finishing up, two pieces are quite rough looking for a variety of reasons, one looks awesome. I had some bed adhesion issues but I've learned my lesson so future prints should be better. I also spent some time mocking up other armor pieces, specifically the knees, and shoulders. I also mocked up a first attempt at a cod piece and a back piece neither of which I took pictures of.
 

I also acquired some bondo and some metallic spray paint for the base color of my armor. They didn't have the primer/filler that I wanted so I'll continue to hunt for that. All in all I felt very productive. More weapons modding tonight as I monitor the final hours of my print.

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2022, 10:13 PM by AboveAverageGeek » Logged

Arco'thyel Wyshla


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #16 on: Feb 14, 2022, 03:16 AM »
For P/I the 'four lower body armor' count is if you skip on the standard minimum of cod+knees, but Aeon's concept looks like it has a cod plate and knees (Shnees+cod also works).

Oop! You're exactly right, great catch. :laugh: That's what I get for being too absorbed in my own plans!


Wow, making great progress! I like your interpretation of the MandoCreator legacy plates. Are you doing layered knees? That's cool, I don't think I've ever seen that!

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| Hard Goods WIP | Soft Goods WIP | Planning Log |

"Visit Mandalore before Mandalore visits you. Take home some souvenirs—a slab of uj cake and a smack in the mouth." ―Baltan Carid

"Don’t take this the wrong way you guys, but uh, Mandalorians are crazy." ―Ezra Bridger

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #17 on: Feb 15, 2022, 12:42 AM »
Hey gang! I missed yesterday's update, but I'm back today in full force.
 

Wow, making great progress! I like your interpretation of the MandoCreator legacy plates. Are you doing layered knees? That's cool, I don't think I've ever seen that!
Thanks! The plan is to do layered knees as I am pretty sure I'll be working in 3mm syntra, so with two layers I should hopefully be able to kneel on them if needed. Additionally, it should provide some extra coverage/mobility for crouching etc. It also matches the shoulder plate style more accurately. It feels very in tune with the P/I chest plates design wise for me as well.

As far as other progress:
3D printing the helmet continues full force and should hopefully finish within a week. I solved some initial plate adhesion issues by putting down a thin layer of blue gel elmer's glue before I started the print. Everything is now much more stable which is a relief.

I started sanding the pieces that have finished printing.

Weapons wise, I sketched out some more blaster options/modifications, as well as bondoing some of the rough parts of my blaster bases to remove their final "nerfiness"

In other news, a heat gun has been acquired and I finally started my watch through of The Clone Wars which is a delight.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #18 on: Feb 15, 2022, 10:32 AM »
Very nice!

The glue stick is a smart choice. I use the same stuff on my prints.

How do you plan on binding the helmet panels together?

AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #19 on: Feb 15, 2022, 03:28 PM »
Very nice!

The glue stick is a smart choice. I use the same stuff on my prints.

How do you plan on binding the helmet panels together?

Honestly, I'm in between super glue and epoxy right now. Probably leaning more towards epoxy to get a better connection and fill any gaps. Following that, everything will get a good coat of Bondo which will help with any weakpoints/things I missed. What did you use? Currently deciding how many actual WIP threads I want to make. Maybe one for helmet (once everything is printed), one for soft parts, and one for armor? I'm still undecided, so far I've quite liked having everything together on this thread. Anyways, that's musing for another time.

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #20 on: Feb 15, 2022, 03:46 PM »
I use superglue for binding points merely to keep it together. Though, I will follow that up with JB plastic weld inside the helmet. It is nearly impossible to sand, so do not put it on the outside unless you plan on pealing it off with a knife. Alternatively, I know people use fiberglass resin inside, which is pretty good for overall strength.

WIP pages are up to you. I personally have two: One in armor construction and my local clan so I can get feedback from the general public and my Ruus'alor team. Both are very useful to have, but the Ruus'alor team will usually be my go-to.

Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #21 on: Feb 15, 2022, 03:50 PM »
I would not rely on bondo to strengthen a joint.  When putting my helmet together I used super glue to hold things in place and used 5 minute epoxy on all of the seams. 

I went the extra step to then fiberglass the inside  ;D

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Celtkhan


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #22 on: Feb 15, 2022, 04:52 PM »
I would not rely on bondo to strengthen a joint. 

Agreed; WAY too brittle. It will crack and flake under even the slightest flex or shear stress. Epoxy and fiberglass resin are much better as reinforcement.

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AboveAverageGeek


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #23 on: Feb 15, 2022, 09:27 PM »
I use superglue for binding points merely to keep it together. Though, I will follow that up with JB plastic weld inside the helmet. It is nearly impossible to sand, so do not put it on the outside unless you plan on pealing it off with a knife. Alternatively, I know people use fiberglass resin inside, which is pretty good for overall strength.

WIP pages are up to you. I personally have two: One in armor construction and my local clan so I can get feedback from the general public and my Ruus'alor team. Both are very useful to have, but the Ruus'alor team will usually be my go-to.
Good to know that someone has used super-glue to a good level of success before. It's one thing to read an article, it's another to hear it first hand, much appreciated.

I would not rely on bondo to strengthen a joint.  When putting my helmet together I used super glue to hold things in place and used 5 minute epoxy on all of the seams. 

I went the extra step to then fiberglass the inside  ;D

I definately won't be using bondo to actually hold the helmet together, but I figure that every extra layer over the seems is helpful even if very weak.

Agreed; WAY too brittle. It will crack and flake under even the slightest flex or shear stress. Epoxy and fiberglass resin are much better as reinforcement.
Very good to know, thank you so much for the insight, I've only played with bondo briefly so I'm not super comfortable with it's properties yet. From all the input above it looks like a combo of epoxy/super-glue is a tried and true method. I'm glad my research says the same thing. Pieces of the helmet are getting their first round of sanding after they come off the printer. I plan to then glue them and give everything a layer of bondo to fill my print lines. Then another round of sanding. If everything looks pretty smooth I'll probably go for a coat of filler primer after that.

Besides the continued helmet printing, (onto a 3rd color of PLA) my backstory thoughts are becoming more and more cohesive. I'll start up a google doc that I can type stuff out in and then share here when it feels more ready. Thanks for all the insight everyone :)

Yorwoin


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Re: New Armor WIP ~advice welcome
« Reply #24 on: Feb 16, 2022, 12:38 AM »
I want to stress that you should not rely on super glue or epoxy as the only binding point. It can be inconsistent when being applied to surfaces. Maybe something was mixed wrong or the surface isn't ideal, which can leave weak points in the binding (which is normal). I would definitely recommend using a second binding method like JB weld or fiberglass resin. Even fiberglass body filler can be structurally useful. Since the helmet is an important piece, and PLA has a low glass-transition temperature, giving it an extra hand will save some trouble later on.

For example, I had a back plate I was working on that I applied too much pressure to. Both the superglue and JB weld came apart, so the stuff is not perfect. Ultimately, you want that second layer just in case the helmet experiences an unexpected shock. The most comprehensive solution would be fiberglass resin (though wear a respirator and gloves, that stuff is super toxic).

Glazing putty (the bondo most people refer to since *bondo* is a brand), is really easy to work with. You really do not need a lot for a decent coat. However, I would sand the surface as much as possible prior to using glazing putty and filler-primer. This will save a lot of time when doing a second check for lines. I often use primer first to check for lines, since filler primer is designed to fill in small inconsistencies. Glazing putty's best quality is being able to cover over larger issues like chips, flakes, or deep lines. After two layers of primer and glazing putty spots, most of the work is generally done. From there, it is more an issue about dialing details.

 


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