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 Loincloth question

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Loincloth question
« on: Aug 03, 2010, 10:27 AM »
Are there specific dimensions for width and length for a loincloth or does it vary? i was thinking of using belt loops at the top to attach it to my belt. Thats the only way I can really see to attach it. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks vode.

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Gabrin Kinoda


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #1 on: Aug 03, 2010, 10:44 AM »
There aren't any specific dimensions--it's just how wide or long you want to make it and have it still look good. Choice of fabric and finishing is also up to you--ie. do you want clean seams and crisp corner, or do you want something more distressed, maybe even torn/burned/etc?

Darian's and my kits run the gamut of kamas and loincloths. Some are actually sewn to the vest itself. Some are sewn at the top to a length of 1" nylon strapping, with parachute clips at the end and belted around the waist (under an outer belt). For Darian's Sith, we went the "beltloop" route as well, but after time and movement, the loops want to shift to your middle, giving you a blousy curtain look, rather than a flat panel. It's easily fixed (just slide them back along the belt), but if we had to do it over again, we probably wouldn't have gone that route.

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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #2 on: Aug 03, 2010, 11:19 AM »
Snaps can work on an extra interior belt, or just do what Gabrin touched on: make it it's own belt. I did that for my cod piece. And other than the belt not being the tightest fit, it's the best solution i've found!

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Hondo Karr


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #3 on: Aug 03, 2010, 11:34 AM »
The thing with loincloths is that even when well done, they don't (at least to me) look as good on an ARMORED warrior as a cod plate does. That being said they are an acceptable substitute.

Most people get "theatrical" with their loincloths. They end up looking like something Yule Brennar would wear in The King and I or The 10 Commandments or something from a CapCom fighting game. Long, wide, flowing.... beach towels. Terrible. If you've never experienced tangling, loop a beach towel over your belt so it wears like a loincloth and go run, jump, dive, spin, twist, lung etc in it. Watch how fast it gets tangled up.

Now, we're likely not going to be doing any of that in our armor, even if we could which most of us can't. However, we need to give the impression through our professional quality costume appearance that we can. So, when you design your loincloth, think practical. 1 it's supposed to be an armor alternative. So, it should either be mail, scaled plating or a heavy leather. Canvas, satin, terry cloth etc., shouldnt be used. Next, think practical... it sould be NO LONGER than mid thigh and that's even pushing the length. Cover your groin with and guys get over yourselves it doesn't go to mid shin I don't care who you are, and leave it at that. As for width probably 6-10 inches wide, tapering's fine. i wouldn't go narrower that 6" or wider than 10".

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OriKad


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #4 on: Aug 03, 2010, 12:05 PM »
To counterpoint A'den... Real armored warriors (from the last time period that used armor that looks like armor, not present military-style) didn't wear codpieces in battle armor.  They may have worn codpieces to banquets (for a purpose similar to stuffing a sock in your briefs) but codpieces on armor have never been used in combat.  You can't ride a horse in a codpiece.

Most armor protects the crotch with a chain skirt or dangling scale/lamellar.  In reality, the crotch didn't need protecting, because nobody was aiming there.  As much as it hurts to get hit in the danglies, if you've got adrenaline pumping like you would in a combat situation, a hit to the "malebox" isn't going to do a thing (I know.  It's happened to me on stage  It hurt a lot, but only AFTER the show was done)... and the other guy knows that.  The other guy is always aiming for a kill, which means center mass.

Light footman's armor protects the torso, thighs, head, and sometimes arms, nothing else, and even the heaviest Mando armor we see is equivalent to light footman's armor.

Now aesthetically, I agree that the crotch should be covered by something on all male Mando Mercs.  In my opinion, it should be optional for females as long as their lower flightsuit or pants doesn't have a "cameltoe" problem, i.e. fits casually loose.

Also, as I get back to pertinent to the question and off my tangent, my loincloth on my V2 attaches to my kama, and on my V2 it hangs from my vest like a WWII bomber's flak jacket.

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Hondo Karr


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #5 on: Aug 03, 2010, 12:19 PM »
good thing we're not real life real world ancient armored warriors but armored warriors from a fictional universe where essentially all armored warriors have cod armor and we still allow loincloths in the modern era with minimal at best canon reference for it...

But yeah, real world ancient warriors didn't wear them. Of course, theyre also not the focus of our costumes so not really relevant either.

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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #6 on: Aug 03, 2010, 12:39 PM »
I was planning on going with an armored look, not just a piece of flimsy cloth hanging down there. Thanks for the input fellas.

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Dar'manda


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #7 on: Aug 03, 2010, 01:53 PM »
Not to strew off the topic of loin cloths onto cod pieces...but the main reason we look at ANY crotch covering is that so far every depicted mando in books, movies, and comics has had an armored crotch...even the females.  While most fan-art does show women with smaller armored plates...which is obvious as their parts are a little less "fragile" as the men...but the armor does exist.

The loin cloth is a decorative option in Mercs that should "fake" wearing a cod piece.  It's similar to wearing socks with your boots.  If you don't wear socks under your boots...we would never know.  The loin cloth would be used to cover the cod piece, but if the actual armor was not used you would not be able to tell.

There are then armored loin cloths...which would actually act as more of a replacement to the codpiece instead of a covering.

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Spanner Murraan


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #8 on: Aug 03, 2010, 02:06 PM »
Right now, I have a loincloth that my character uses as a shop rag.  Plain and simple. I just tuck it into my sash and it hangs from under my ammo belt.  It is a practical Item for Spanner.  I also tend to like the look of them, as long as they arent too dramatic and done right. 

My V2 will have a cod AND loincloth, as I, for the most part agree with A'den.  I may even rock the Boba Thong. ;)

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Drago Seron


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #9 on: Aug 03, 2010, 03:07 PM »
 So is there a length requirement in the CRLs that would stop someone from having a shin length loincloth? Because my loincloth is shin length.

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Hondo Karr


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #10 on: Aug 03, 2010, 03:11 PM »
There's really no rules about the loincloth's however, they can be looked at in general under the "quality of appearance" clause. The information I provided was just to offer up examples of how a loincloth SHOULD be worn if it's going to be used.

Seriously, what would be the practical purpose for wearing a loincloth longer than mid thigh? I mean really, what is it offering in any form at that length? Realistically, it would just be a hinderance.

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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #11 on: Aug 03, 2010, 03:14 PM »
There's really no rules about the loincloth's however, they can be looked at in general under the "quality of appearance" clause. The information I provided was just to offer up examples of how a loincloth SHOULD be worn if it's going to be used.

Seriously, what would be the practical purpose for wearing a loincloth longer than mid thigh? I mean really, what is it offering in any form at that length? Realistically, it would just be a hinderance.

I'm pretty sure realism went out the window with anything related to star wars within the first hour of the movie... Floating 'cars', "laser swords", old white dudes using their mind to move stuff, a massive dude covered all in hair, all the aliens in the cantina...

You sit and say that the argument against cods presented by OriKad (from a realism standpoint) doesn't work because it's a Sci-Fi club with it's own universal rules, yet you rail against long loincloths for the sake of realism? In universe, plenty of Sith and other random types seem to have long(er) loin clothes and work just fine... So...Totally not makin sense ori'vod.

« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2010, 03:16 PM by Ijaat » Logged
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Drago Seron


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #12 on: Aug 03, 2010, 03:15 PM »
Considering it's a costume, there really isn't any practical purpose but for the general look of it.

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OriKad


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #13 on: Aug 03, 2010, 03:57 PM »
To be fair, and clear, my argument for loincloths and against cods is only comfort-based, thus rooted in realistic pragmatism.  My reference to real-armored people is as a general frame of reference, especially when you consider that the original designs for all the costumes in our chosen fandom are inspired by, and borrow elements from, real world historical examples.

I'm sorry if my previous post came off as an affront or attack.  I only intended to provide the other side of the opinion/information scale from A'den, with supporting references and experience. I respect his opinion and experience regardless of whether I agree on specifics.

I do agree, though, on the width suggestions.  Too wide is almost as bad as too thin.  For example, my V2, a pilot Mando, has the ejector straps that hang from the vest.  2 inch wide nylon webbing was not enough, so I added the hanging piece that extends 12" down from the bottom of my belt, and tapers from 9" at the top to 3.5" at the bottom.  Practicality played a role in that, as a pilot build, sitting down is vitally important to the character being portrayed, and sitting down with a codpiece isn't very comfy.

Also... I do ramble a lot don't I?  Anyway, on topic.  You should consider which crotch covering is appropriate for the build.  A loincloth looks a wrong without a kama unless you do it just right, and even WITH a kama, you probably wouldn't look all that good if it's too long.

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Hondo Karr


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Re: Loincloth question
« Reply #14 on: Aug 03, 2010, 05:00 PM »
I agree about the oximorons Ijaat. However, the flip side to that argeument is...1 this isn't a Sith building club so drawing "inspiration" from a Sith or a Jedi shouldn't be done a build and 2. yes, the jedi and Sith can seam to do just fine in flowing robes etc. Could be the physics of the SWU, it could be for theatrical purposes (not practical purposes) or it could be their force spacial abilities allow them to not be hampered by it.

Even in Ori'kad's explanation of real warriors vs sci fi warriors, real world warriors that wore loinclothes didnt wear clothes down to their ankles. You'd be hard pressed to find any or many, with the exception of perhaps ceremonial garb?, much longer than above the knee.

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