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 Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?

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Dresdon Acacin


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So recently I got an 'eff you' kind of remark from a government worker on my armour, I was talking to a friend who was working in a government building cafeteria about a local convention I'd be going to in july or so so the topic went onto keyblades(yuck), swords, and then my beskad. I was discussing handle ideas with them and then I was wondering if it would be viewed with the same restriction as brass knuckles since it has a Kopis style guard that partially covers the hand(I've concluded the combat knife will need a reword for this reason) and this is what I came up with....


Brass Knuckles or that type grip illegal because it is a concealable weapon where the only reason someone would have it is as a weapon...so the same thing goes for a trench knife that has a brass knuckle type grip-it was designed to kill and maim and nothing more.

Kopis grip: non concealable, meant to protect the fingers on the sword hand


Then a random clerk butts in and says its still a replica weapon and if its metal then its an illegal weapon even though I explaned it was dulled soft aluminum they still just...I guess b$*^#ed about it to us and it leaves me wondering, what is this grey area?

Do you need a justifiable reason? consent? a PERMIT?
Is it up to the people upholding the law to decide what is and isn't allowed?

I've stood there cradling my blaster at public events in my armour with police there walking by and not gotten any sort of attention from them beyond a glance at the cosplayers. So I guess you need to have:
-a reason to have it
-a 'safe' weapon
-and it probably wont do good to be waving it around pretending to stab passers by like those di'kuts who buy the AC hidden blades and walk up to people knifing them and running away with an undeserved sense of acomplishment.

« Last Edit: Apr 11, 2014, 11:46 PM by Dresdon Acacin » Logged
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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"
« Reply #1 on: Apr 11, 2014, 10:54 PM »
As far as I know that grip IS NOT illegal because it attached to a big blade or sword IS NOT conceliable. Their are thousands of knives sold with brass knuckle like grips including marine trench knives which are huge with knife collectors. I own a set of brass knuckles legally in that they are never carried and were purchased as a "paper weight"

Vraeden


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #2 on: Apr 12, 2014, 08:06 AM »
I am a federal employee and I own the Melee Mug from Thinkgeek.



It sits on my desk and no one in my office, from the guy in the cubicle next to me up to the director, has ever said anything about it other than, "That's awesome; where did you get it?"

As Tlor Fett mentions, knives with knuckle grips are legally sold all over the country because they're not concealable.  It sounds to me that some nosy person just wanted to butt into your conversation and run his yap.

« Last Edit: Apr 12, 2014, 08:13 AM by Vraeden » Logged
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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #3 on: Apr 12, 2014, 01:55 PM »
As above, the key element is concealability, not style.  Brass knuckle style grips are perfectly okay in something like 99% of jurisdictions, so long as they're on a non-concealable prop, they're okay.  In the US at least, almost every issue where it's 'grey area' is up to the discretion of the officer-on-scene, and most of them aren't gonna give you guff about it if you're in costume at an event, because they're likely already aware of the context, and might even be interested in becoming a Merc.  Even if they do comment on it, most likely it'll be 'stick it in your car' or something.

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Svik Katora


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #4 on: Apr 12, 2014, 02:22 PM »
Personally I think any ban that is justified by "It was meant to hurt people" is total bs. A baseball bat is an infinitely better weapon and is completely legal. You don't even have to bother hiding in. Muskets were designed to kill people, and in many countries you don't need a gun permit to own one. A lot of these weapons were banned because people have some irrational fear of them and so in the end you will probably only get into trouble if someone is afraid of the item in question. So avoid knuckle shaped bumps and you should be good.

Dresdon Acacin


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #5 on: Apr 12, 2014, 08:11 PM »
All good points: the blade in quesiton is by no means concealable unless you like had it down a pantleg but even then you'd be walking like a you had your leg straped to a board so it was immobile.  Here is an example of the Cold Steel Kopis thats sold in Canada
http://www.knifezone.ca/coldsteel/CS97KPMkopisgreeksword.htm
 so if it can be sold and shipped in canada then my beskad grip's got to be allowed. Now I can understand waving it around infront of an office building might be a bit wierd if its on just a random day with out any for-mentioning to anyone, but at a costumed even or invited to an event to cosplay and attract people it would be justified?

This grip is 1/2" 1100 alloy Aluminum so its the softest Aluminum available, therefore it's literally the safest metal I could possibly be using and still have it polished and machined like this.

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FreemanBanana


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #6 on: Apr 15, 2014, 12:51 PM »
. A lot of these weapons were banned because people have some irrational fear of them and so in the end you will probably only get into trouble if someone is afraid of the item in question.

This reminds me of 'assault rifles'. Yes, I would avoid things that would bring attention to you in an unwanted fashion. With that said, you are at a convention of some sort most of the time. Surrounded by multiple people dressed in a similar fashion. I don't see why you would be picked out of a bunch for no reason other than a sword.

With that said, most conventions have rules posted. Such as MegaCon, they updated their weapon requirements this year. They were enforced pretty loosely though.

I think what you have there is fine.

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Vraeden


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #7 on: Apr 16, 2014, 07:54 AM »
It seems to me that every convention has a weapons policy, and some are more strict than others, both in the rules and in the enforcement.

I've read some weapons policies that explicitly say "no metal swords" and others that require them to be peace-bonded and all edges blunted.  There's a con where I live that won't let you bring a prop gun in if it has a moving trigger (even if that's the only part that moves).

Most cons also have an orange barrel tip rule, but it's almost never enforced, but I keep a roll of orange electrical tape on hand in case they ever decide to get picky.

I was at a panel with the 501st and they were saying that due to variances in international restrictions and laws, they didn't require their costumes to have weapons any more.  With any metal bladed weapon, I'd be more interested in what your local laws are, rather than convention rules. 

If the person manning the turnstiles says your gun/sword/shoulder cannon is in violation of the convention rules, you're kind of stuck, but you probably won't get arrested.

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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #8 on: Apr 30, 2014, 06:09 PM »
My first question is is the blade hand made? I ask because I do a type of fencing the uses Rapiers. the only thing separating them from real swords is the blades are blunted and flexable, and I do not mean dull or rounded I mean it is a flat surface where the edge would be. if you make it look real with that type of edge no one should have a issue.

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Dresdon Acacin


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #9 on: Apr 30, 2014, 06:37 PM »
Yes it is handmade, its the softest alloy of aluminum commercially available and all edges are blunted/rounded.


here is the edge, its not flat but about 1/16" wide and round.

(this is a staged shot, I jammed it into a pre-existing hole in the log from a differant sword)

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FreemanBanana


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 09:03 AM »
To be perfectly honest I made a wooden sword that appeared the same as what you have there. I spent quite a bit of time getting it smooth so the wood looked like metal. It came to a fairly sharp edge, but no point on the tip. It wouldn't cut anything regardless. It just looked good. Anyways, I had 2 of those strapped to my back at Megacon and I got stopped once. The lady literally flicked it and asked me "You plan on pulling these out a lot?"
"Nope" *Reached for them to demonstrate I couldn't even touch em*
*waves me through*

I took many shots with me holding them though. Never ran into another problem after that. I really think you'll be fine with that. A sheathe would go a long way to making people more comfortable too.

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Dresdon Acacin


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 01:49 PM »
Ye its got a sheath, I emailed some convention security about it, and if all else fails and it makes them feel better we could even ziptie them to the sheath.

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Kyr'bes Binesor


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2014, 07:01 PM »
Personally I think any ban that is justified by "It was meant to hurt people" is total bs. A baseball bat is an infinitely better weapon and is completely legal. You don't even have to bother hiding in. Muskets were designed to kill people, and in many countries you don't need a gun permit to own one. A lot of these weapons were banned because people have some irrational fear of them and so in the end you will probably only get into trouble if someone is afraid of the item in question. So avoid knuckle shaped bumps and you should be good.

I was told back in high school by a police officer that I cannot carry a baseball bat in my vehicle without at least cleats a glove or a ball. That it is then considered a weapon.

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Tyno Krast


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2014, 08:13 PM »
Why not make a dummy grip for the stricter events. Just fabricate a grip and attach it to strip of plastic. In that way you can still get the look while it's sheathed without having to deal with idiots or overzealous security. Then take the Big Daddy with you to events that are a little more lax on prop weapons.

Dresdon Acacin


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Re: Fineprint between "Costume Props" and "Replica Weapons"?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2014, 08:14 PM »
A great point to bring up, Tyno - thats why I kept the original wooden one lol.

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