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 Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)

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Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« on: Aug 24, 2015, 09:19 PM »
Hey everyone,

I've been a long running member on these boards and have looked into so much of what I could...scratch that....CAN do for my own kit. I've watched different ideas of making armor into what it takes to get the soft parts going. At first my real problem was obtaining the soft parts or finding the soft parts that would make my mando come to life. However, I've seen that's not the biggest issue when it comes to making armor. Everyone makes it look so easy. Though for me I lack the initial detail of having a sewing machine to do the basics that would attach armor and such. So in the long run... my armor planing has been on hold for years to come. Luckily, I have a friend that is helping me out when it comes to anything sewing. So my main focus is on the armor itself.

Seems simple enough seeing as I've seen so many different ways of making mandalorian armor. Trash cans, aluminum metal, card board (I know that this is frowned upon), etc. etc. etc. But before I jump into that. I'm still needing the help of where to start. As any new person into costuming would. This is actually my first costume to be made and I'm super excited... even if I'm a long running member.

Initially, the inspiration for my armor has come from this pic below.



Being in Arizona; dark colors don't go well because of our above 90 degree weather. I've looked into a few concepts of having a desert mandalorian with desert camo, but can't seem to find good inspiration into that. And plus red and black colors are my favorite to begin with. So of course I am picturing an assassin or ninja type mandalorian. Which ever I can do best when it comes to making it. The picture above has my inspiration with the armor plate colors however, I do wanna change the helmet colors. Reverse them if you will and add more detail to the helmet. In time, however, I probably will change my mind but it all depends.

I'm only seeking input and advice before I continue. And plus I still have plans in what more I can add before continuing.

Thanks.

-Tal Kote

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Havelock


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #1 on: Aug 25, 2015, 12:06 AM »
I remember reading (somewhere) that black is actually the best color for reflecting heat.  So dark colors shouldn't be a problem with your kit. Something to keep in mind with dark colors, though, is that with too much black, it'll all tend to blend together.  However, with the picture you posted, having a grey flight suit would definitely make the black stand out, instead of blend in.  And while black and red seems to be one of the most popular color choices, there's nothing wrong with that.  If that's what you want, I say go for it.

To help combat the head, I'd say going with light armor is probably going to be your best choice, which works well with an assassin Mando.

I'll be watching your thread with interest.  I'm looking forward to seeing your kit progress.

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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #2 on: Aug 25, 2015, 07:52 AM »
Apologies Havelock, but I'm afraid you've got that reversed.  White reflects heat & black absorbs it.  (White is the absence of color, it is reflecting the various color wavelengths.  Black is all colors combined, so it is absorbing all those wavelengths, & thus more heat.) Sorry.  Graphic artist.  I have to deal with color issues a lot.


Tal Kote, It's a balance between looking awesome & colors that won't kill you in the heat.   I live in Texas, myself so I understand fully about the heat concerns.  My kit's green with a black flight suit.  I try to stick to indoor troops.  Outdoor ones, well you could cook an egg on my armor during the summer.   However, I was dead set on my color scheme, and so I just have to deal with it.  If there's something outdoors, I try to hang in shade, or I sneak off to get water & cool down a lot.

All that being said, your inspiration image is freaking awesome!

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Mandalorian Riders #0015, Nerf-herders #09, B.E.A.R.D.S.  #062, B.O.M.B. #35, Kilted Mandalorian brigade #22, B.O.O.M. #05,  VRCA  #60, XMG  #10, Iron Fang #4, KOVA #13, M.A.R.S. #40, M5 #64, L.O.B. #11

Havelock


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #3 on: Aug 25, 2015, 01:53 PM »
Maljohn, not an argument but an honest question in relation to color: Why doe Bedouins traditionally wear all black, then?  Your explanation, which makes total sense, now puzzles me in view of a desert people choosing to wear black.  Chalk it up to my insatiable desire to know at least a little about everything.   :D

But back on topic, I live in Savannah, Ga, so I'm familiar with heat and humidity.  Sucks.  To my benefit - when it comes to trooping once I have my kit built and approved - I played a fantasy LARP for nearly 15 years.  Georgia heat.  Chain male.  Then plate.  So I've got lots of practice with dealing with heavy, hot kit, and outdoors stuff.  So the best advice I can offer, Tal, is when doing outdoor troops, hydrate.  Lots and lots and lots of hydration.  Choose whatever colors you like best, but remember that your health is more important than keeping your bucket on.

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"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness."  - Terry Pratchett
Have you explored all that the Royal War College of Mandalore has to offer?
Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #4 on: Aug 25, 2015, 03:22 PM »
I'm generally happy that I was born and raised here in Arizona. Used to the weather that comes above 90 degrees. Our last record breaking high was 117, and this was without humidity. So long as our humidity isn't bad... I'm good LOL! But we can't predict the weather. And for me I used to wearing a ton of stuff and sweating. High school marked my year of being in JROTC and wearing three plus layers of clothing. I got a good handle on keeping myself hydrated and safe when it comes to this kind of weather. That's always my number one concern.

Now!

It seems a lot of ideas of mine come to me when I'm laying down to go to bed. And seeing as what you -- Havelock -- said pertaining to color variation I've looked long into that. The picture I posted itself looks like the armor is sitting on top of a grey flight suit and vest. Light in color, yes, and it does make the armor pop out. My first intention was to go all black with flight suit, vest, and gloves. But what you said Havelock made me think about really displaying my kit off. And with a little digging further I'm thinking of a dark navy blue style flight suit with maybe a darker green vest or dark grey vest. The closest picture I saw when it came to concept of that was this one which seems plausible to me.



The armor plate colors are none of my concern but the flight suit as a navy blue makes them pop out a little more which is awesome in my book. In the end we will see as I progress more.

----

Next, I do have a question.

My ultimate goal is to produce an Assassin Mando which means light armor. And I looked above to see a description of what light armor entails. This all includes:

    Head - Helmet
    Shoulder - standard shoulder bells
    Upper Torso - Chest plates and abdomen
    Groin - cod plate, armored loin cloth, or a loin cloth
    Knee - Separate knee armor
    Forearm - Gauntlets
    Back - Back plate. Capes/Dusters are allowed as long as they cover from shoulder to shoulder.

Seems legit to me, but when I picture assassin I'm thinking nothing on the back. Maybe some kind of duster or scarf like material that wraps around the neck and the fully envelops the back. I found this pic which sort of displays what I'm talking about when it comes to scarf material and the back. Who knows I may still go with a back plate to have some kind of weapon that can be easily accessible.



Any suggestions is welcomed.

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Havelock


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #5 on: Aug 25, 2015, 03:40 PM »
To quote from the CRLs:

Quote
Back covering:

    Some form of back covering is required. (Backpack, back armor, air tank, cape, cloak, etc.)
    Must cover at least 2/3 the overall width and length of the back.
    Back armor SHOULD be used as all canon references for Modern Era Mandalorians show back armor. However, if your Mandalorian wears a duster or other jacket or a cape that fully covers the back from shoulder to shoulder and neck to waist, the use of a backplate is not required. Backpacks and jetpacks are also acceptable in lieu of a back plate. However, the back covering must completely cover the back as to make it unknown that there is no backplate present.
    Soft back coverings can be substituted for back armor pieces as long as they add to the overall look of the applicant’s armor.
    Full/half capes are acceptable as long as they cover the entire back area. (No armor vest should be showing.)
    Soft/hard backpacks/packs are acceptable alternatives.

So you can absolutely go without a back plate. You just need to have a cape or duster or something on your back to hide the fact that you don't have a back plate.  Which makes perfect sense for a stealthy assassin.  And I like the navy flight suit idea.  Not sure about the green flak vest; I think you'd have to make sure it's pretty dark to not wind up clashing.  Which is not insurmountable.  I dunno.  Specific colors going together...not my forte.  As my wife reminds whenever necessary.   :laugh: 

I think you have an imminently workable plan here, vod.  Now, to quote various of the long-term OMs..."Get building."   ;D

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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2015, 08:28 AM »
Maljohn, not an argument but an honest question in relation to color: Why doe Bedouins traditionally wear all black, then?  Your explanation, which makes total sense, now puzzles me in view of a desert people choosing to wear black.  Chalk it up to my insatiable desire to know at least a little about everything.   :D

But back on topic, I live in Savannah, Ga, so I'm familiar with heat and humidity.  Sucks.  To my benefit - when it comes to trooping once I have my kit built and approved - I played a fantasy LARP for nearly 15 years.  Georgia heat.  Chain male.  Then plate.  So I've got lots of practice with dealing with heavy, hot kit, and outdoors stuff.  So the best advice I can offer, Tal, is when doing outdoor troops, hydrate.  Lots and lots and lots of hydration.  Choose whatever colors you like best, but remember that your health is more important than keeping your bucket on.

Re: Bedouins in black.....  I have no idea.  I figured maybe it had something to do with the fabric being silks & such...Anyway, made me curious so I looked it up.  This "Conversation" on Physics Forums seemed to answer it best:

If you are packing for a trip to the desert would it be better to pack light or dark clothes? The answer is not a simple as you might think, as Don and Yael discuss. D: Hey, Yael, check out my new white linen suit. It's going to keep me cool on my vacation to the Mojave desert. Y: That is one snazzy suit, Don. D: Oh, I'm stylin'. Plus, everyone knows that white reflects heat and black absorbs it. Yes, if you're out in the sun, you're better off wearing white. Y: Not always, Don. After all, Bedouins, the nomadic people who spend their entire lives in the desert, wear black robes. D: But that doesn't make sense. Dark surfaces get warmer in the sun than light surfaces. You'd think the Bedouins would have figured that out by now. Y: Don, Don, Don. Things are never that simple. You're right that the air underneath black fabric warms up faster than the air underneath white fabric. At the same time, though, black fabric provides more shade than white fabric, and this decreases the amount of light that directly reaches the skin. Plus, a lot depends on the type of clothing you're wearing. You see, warm air rises. And when it does, it's replaced by cool air. And if you happen to be wearing a robe, all that movement of the warm air creates a breeze that sucks up cooler air from the bottom of the robe and pushes it out the top. D: So wearing a black robe is like having a suit with a built in fan. Y: Exactly. But again, the key is that the robe is loose-fitting. Otherwise, there isn't enough room for the air to circulate. So if you're going to the desert in a tight-fitting suit, it's better to wear white.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/why-do-bedouins-wear-black-robes.65287/

Re heat & Humidity: Intersting comment.  I've got a similar background.  Started out in the SCA for 25 years.  Fought in full plate as well.  I was really surprised to find out my kit is hotter than my armor ever was.  I finally concluded that the layers of clothing are thicker & tighter, & the beskar covers a lot more surface area closer to the body  (I have basically a heavy assault kit)  There was less cloth & the armor was held on by straps in my SCA stuff so there was a little room to breath.  .....Anyway, I dehydrate FASTER standing around in my lightweight Mando kit than I ever did fighting in my 80+ lbs of combat armor.

Tal: I agree totally.  I think the kit will pop a LOT more with a different colored flight suit.  I think you're on the right track.

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Sith killed my Mudder! Sith killed my Fadder! Sith killed my people!  They took my fadder’s sward!

Mandalorian Riders #0015, Nerf-herders #09, B.E.A.R.D.S.  #062, B.O.M.B. #35, Kilted Mandalorian brigade #22, B.O.O.M. #05,  VRCA  #60, XMG  #10, Iron Fang #4, KOVA #13, M.A.R.S. #40, M5 #64, L.O.B. #11

kaosukoden


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2015, 11:53 AM »
Colors, while not my forte so to speak, I have learned quite a bit about since I've started learning how to be a Light Board Operator.

THE COLOR WHEEL:


The color wheel is the standard circle of colors, and it's lined up in their "cromatic relationship."
There are different ways of looking at color combinations, and it has to do with the color wheel. The most common ways to combine colors are Primary colors, secondary colors, tertiary colors, complementary colors, & analogous colors. They all have to do with making connections to other colors on the color wheel.

This website is one (of oh so many) references for how to combine and mix and match colors based on the wheel. If you dig deep enough, you can find the emotions attached to those colors and why they make us feel/think like we do. Colors are a fun and intricate way to draw people's attention to or from something, so use it wisely. Personally I think a Navy, Green, Black and Red setup would look freak'n awesome (built around tritiary colors.)

As for the black vs white relationship in high temperatures, I think Han'Tor hit the nail on the head. I personally hope to never have to troop on a 100+ day, but if I do, I'll be very mindful of staying hydrated. (my design is mostly black with yellow highlights AND A FULL CLOAK/CAPE!)

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Havelock


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #8 on: Aug 26, 2015, 01:24 PM »
Maljohn, thank you.  That was an awesome little article.  Kaos, very cool.  I can never figure out the color wheel sites, so I just generally ask people.   ;D

Tal, I apologize for hijacking your thread.  How's progress?

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"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness."  - Terry Pratchett
Have you explored all that the Royal War College of Mandalore has to offer?

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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #9 on: Aug 26, 2015, 02:34 PM »
Yeah Tal, sorry about that.  Will try to stay on topic.

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Sith killed my Mudder! Sith killed my Fadder! Sith killed my people!  They took my fadder’s sward!

Mandalorian Riders #0015, Nerf-herders #09, B.E.A.R.D.S.  #062, B.O.M.B. #35, Kilted Mandalorian brigade #22, B.O.O.M. #05,  VRCA  #60, XMG  #10, Iron Fang #4, KOVA #13, M.A.R.S. #40, M5 #64, L.O.B. #11
Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #10 on: Aug 26, 2015, 04:27 PM »
Hahahah it's all good guys. This is actually a good learning experience for me anyways. I'm not entirely good at choosing colors. Sometimes I tend to wear a shirt that is red and a pair of pants that have stripes of different colors and it doesn't look right. Though I've seen kits on here that have a bright yellow and orange and they look really good.

I choose red and black because it matches so well together in my opinion.... and red is my favorite color too LOL!

On that note; I'm learning a lot when it comes to my soft goods. So I'm switching gears. I'm going to work on my soft stuff first before I get a hold of my armor, helmet, and weapons. When it comes to assassin I'm thinking ninja-like. So I'm thinking two blasters and maybe some kind of bladed weapon. I thought of a darksaber like the one Pre used in the Clone Wars but am thinking of more of a vibro-sword or blade. Blasters my mind and heart is set on the Wester-35 blaster pistols with a really nicely done and unique paint job.



It'll be fun getting a hold of a pair of these with holsters to use.

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Havelock


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #11 on: Aug 26, 2015, 04:54 PM »
A darksaber would be awesome...but sadly only Pre Visla gets to use one.  But a vibrosword and a beskad would be ori'kandosii!

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"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness."  - Terry Pratchett
Have you explored all that the Royal War College of Mandalore has to offer?

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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #12 on: Aug 26, 2015, 05:01 PM »
I thought of a darksaber like the one Pre used in the Clone Wars but am thinking of more of a vibro-sword or blade.

Unfortunately, darksabers fall under the same category as a lightsaber.  Only way you can have one on an official kit is if it's a cannon character or it's a broken trophy. 

(I had wanted to do a lightsaber with my kit when I started, as Maljohn was my Star Wars RPG character before I joined the Mercs.  He was a failed Jedi who joined the Mandalorians... But the ap team gave me a resounding "No", & I can't argue with their reasoning.)

...SO, now I use a vibro sword & a vibro ax




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Sith killed my Mudder! Sith killed my Fadder! Sith killed my people!  They took my fadder’s sward!

Mandalorian Riders #0015, Nerf-herders #09, B.E.A.R.D.S.  #062, B.O.M.B. #35, Kilted Mandalorian brigade #22, B.O.O.M. #05,  VRCA  #60, XMG  #10, Iron Fang #4, KOVA #13, M.A.R.S. #40, M5 #64, L.O.B. #11

kaosukoden


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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #13 on: Aug 26, 2015, 05:08 PM »
Sounds like you're going the direction I'm going... So I'm going to follow your build closely. I'm only on a sketching phase right now, but have put a lot of thought into the style. I'm also building a fairly intricate back story to go along with him. With that in mind, as a Mandalorian in the Star Wars universe, it's going to be imperative to be able to adapt according to world, terrain, and even situation, especially as an "assassin" type character.

As for my build, soft goods have my attention at this moment as well, because that's what's going to build my character, not the armor. (don't get me wrong, the armor is an intricate part of being a Mandalorian, I mean heck, that's what's brought us all here to this group.) So my belts, my gloves, my boots, my flightsuit and vest, and especially my cloak/cape, are all very important. They have to have a few things in my opinion:
1. purpose: each piece has to have a function, and not a "oh this will hold my phone" function, but a "this is where the energy cells, and this is for the gas charges go for my blaster" Everything has an IN-UNIVERSE purpose and function, otherwise it's not in character, and should not be on my costume.
2. Galaxy specific look to it. AKA, I've been from Coruscant to Kashyyyk, and even through the Aldaraanian Asteroid Field. I don't have to be battle damaged, because let's face it, if I'm a decent enough assassin, any battles i have will be short, unexpected, and hopefully little to no damage to me. Any damage should be fixed, cleaned, but never polished (learned this from Jango Fett.) Therefore, while I won't have paint chips and blaster singes, my armor will have to look like it's lived in. Boots for example can be shined and polished, but there's a big difference between a brand new pair of boots, and a polished/cleaned pair that have been worn for a few years.
3. function: everything I wear in costume will need to function as it should in the star wars galaxy... with-in reason of course. No, my flamethrower will not actually work, and obviously a blaster is not quite possible at this point in time. And this is why they call it fiction. HOWEVER, if I can make my flamethrower look like all it needs is to be lit up for it to function... or by adding carbon dust around the blaster barrels on my gauntlets to make it look like they are used and will fire at my command... THIS is what I'm aiming for, this is the level of detail that makes a good kit great. Thinking of it not as a kit, but as a "how would this actually work/look/smell in a galaxy far far away?"

As for weapons, I think all my weapons should be on my armor. now of course I will have my Wester-35 in it's hidden holster underneath my cape on my back as a backup, but my main weapons are dual blasters built right into my gauntlets, along with Ion's right along side (let's face it, the droid population in this galaxy has not only gotten out of hand, but they think they have the right to do what they want... (in character))
Here's a neat place to find some templates, one of which is the Wester-35.

I said all of this to say I'm with you on your character, I'm excited to see how you get things done, what problems you run into, and how you work around them. I'd love to work hand in hand with you, especially since our builds are so similar, except I'm doing black and yellow, not black and red... because it matches so well together in my opinion... and yellow is my favorite color too LOL!

P.S. as for the back plate, I think as an assassin you should expect to get attacked from behind, and even if you end up wearing a full cape/cloak (like myself) I'd highly consider a backplate for the "in character armor" aspect of it.

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Re: Tal Kote's Armor Planing (WIP)
« Reply #14 on: Aug 26, 2015, 06:32 PM »
Unfortunately, darksabers fall under the same category as a lightsaber.  Only way you can have one on an official kit is if it's a cannon character or it's a broken trophy. 

(I had wanted to do a lightsaber with my kit when I started, as Maljohn was my Star Wars RPG character before I joined the Mercs.  He was a failed Jedi who joined the Mandalorians... But the ap team gave me a resounding "No", & I can't argue with their reasoning.)

...SO, now I use a vibro sword & a vibro ax

Sick! Yeah that was my one and only thought when it came to weapons. A strict no lightsaber policy unless its a trophy. My character is from RPG too, but was born into the culture and trained as a stealthy warrior who uses light weapons and hand-to-hand combat to fight. Who knows my perspective on a vibro sword may change. It depends when I want to start the weapons.

Sounds like you're going the direction I'm going... So I'm going to follow your build closely. I'm only on a sketching phase right now, but have put a lot of thought into the style. I'm also building a fairly intricate back story to go along with him. With that in mind, as a Mandalorian in the Star Wars universe, it's going to be imperative to be able to adapt according to world, terrain, and even situation, especially as an "assassin" type character.

As for my build, soft goods have my attention at this moment as well, because that's what's going to build my character, not the armor. (don't get me wrong, the armor is an intricate part of being a Mandalorian, I mean heck, that's what's brought us all here to this group.) So my belts, my gloves, my boots, my flightsuit and vest, and especially my cloak/cape, are all very important. They have to have a few things in my opinion:
1. purpose: each piece has to have a function, and not a "oh this will hold my phone" function, but a "this is where the energy cells, and this is for the gas charges go for my blaster" Everything has an IN-UNIVERSE purpose and function, otherwise it's not in character, and should not be on my costume.
2. Galaxy specific look to it. AKA, I've been from Coruscant to Kashyyyk, and even through the Aldaraanian Asteroid Field. I don't have to be battle damaged, because let's face it, if I'm a decent enough assassin, any battles i have will be short, unexpected, and hopefully little to no damage to me. Any damage should be fixed, cleaned, but never polished (learned this from Jango Fett.) Therefore, while I won't have paint chips and blaster singes, my armor will have to look like it's lived in. Boots for example can be shined and polished, but there's a big difference between a brand new pair of boots, and a polished/cleaned pair that have been worn for a few years.
3. function: everything I wear in costume will need to function as it should in the star wars galaxy... with-in reason of course. No, my flamethrower will not actually work, and obviously a blaster is not quite possible at this point in time. And this is why they call it fiction. HOWEVER, if I can make my flamethrower look like all it needs is to be lit up for it to function... or by adding carbon dust around the blaster barrels on my gauntlets to make it look like they are used and will fire at my command... THIS is what I'm aiming for, this is the level of detail that makes a good kit great. Thinking of it not as a kit, but as a "how would this actually work/look/smell in a galaxy far far away?"

As for weapons, I think all my weapons should be on my armor. now of course I will have my Wester-35 in it's hidden holster underneath my cape on my back as a backup, but my main weapons are dual blasters built right into my gauntlets, along with Ion's right along side (let's face it, the droid population in this galaxy has not only gotten out of hand, but they think they have the right to do what they want... (in character))
Here's a neat place to find some templates, one of which is the Wester-35.

I said all of this to say I'm with you on your character, I'm excited to see how you get things done, what problems you run into, and how you work around them. I'd love to work hand in hand with you, especially since our builds are so similar, except I'm doing black and yellow, not black and red... because it matches so well together in my opinion... and yellow is my favorite color too LOL!

P.S. as for the back plate, I think as an assassin you should expect to get attacked from behind, and even if you end up wearing a full cape/cloak (like myself) I'd highly consider a backplate for the "in character armor" aspect of it.

Great minds think alike.  8) 8) 8)

I was thinking lots of damage when it came to assassin. Don't know why, but I had to think about it. You are correct! When it comes to combat it shouldn't drag out and be short and quick. Maybe some rusting in some areas and a deep battle scar on the helmet from fighting with a jedi. ;) Yeah the more I thought about a back plate I was thinking maybe I should utilize one for my character and a cloak material with the AZ clan symbol on it hanging. To me that'd be amazing for my kit at least. It'll be great to see what you are planing as well.

Definitely look forward to continue bouncing ideas off of yah as well. This will be fun!!

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