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[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

I know there's way more to it than this in the in universe cannon, but in terms of death watch mandos in an era where there was an abundance of beskar i think it was just reuse. You know, the budget's only so big.

Yeah, from a practical standpoint, that's probably what happened. But now we have to explain it away from a story perspective! I think it makes sense that there's no solid time difference between PI and modern designs -- it's not like the empire fell and all mando armor suddenly changed -- so it makes sense to me that "Post-Imperial" designs would start circulating sometime during the Clone Wars, much like Boba's design is still modern well into the PI era. It's the idea of repurposed trooper armor being an official part of the Death Watch uniform that has me iffy. I think it would make more sense if those plates turned out not to be repurposed as is suggested in the concept art, but instead be an official mando plate design. Ultimately, it's all speculation!


Yorwoin -- I agree with your assessments! I very much appreciate your two cents from the animated series as well (I need to re-watch them now that I'm more invested in the Death Watch...).

I know I don't need a full backstory, I could sort the details out as I go along, but for the moment I'm interested in things that have a large influence on design. Is Arco a Child of the Watch? I'll probably have some messy asymmetry then. Or am I more similar to the Nite Owls?  I'd be more cohesive and clean in that case. And of course, details like being a narglatch breeder will aid with weathering and damage. I'd love my kit to talk just by looking at it!

Regarding my concept, I do believe I'm switching it up a bit following my latest PI concept dive, more info on that to come. I'll certainly have to play with what goes on the belt, too. Aside from useful pouches for phone / wallet / portable fan, I'll probably add things like throwing knives and narglatch quills once I finish OM and get started on brigades. I can see the whole belt area changing quite a bit as I go along!

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Alright! Getting close to a final design. Let's talk through my thoughts. For reference, here's my current MandoCreator concept with my best attempt at recreating the legs / gauntlets I want. (I didn't come anywhere close. )



My original wish was to go full pure beskar, but as I've thought on it, I realized that's not practical for me. Not only does chrome require a lot of prep and pricey materials to initially paint, it's also going to be a pain to maintain. It can get damaged even with a clearcoat, and more importantly, dents or scratches could result in the whole plate needing to be remade, considering how difficult it is to damage pure beskar.

I've scaled it back to pure beskar helmet and shoulders (and gauntlets?) with a durasteel alloy everywhere else. This is exciting for a couple of reasons. For one, I love the plain metal look, and I think it will be visually interesting to highlight the difference between beskar and durasteel plates. Another reason is that I'm enchanted by the underwiring shown in Din's plates, and since my intended brigade requires heavy weathering, I could have a damaged durasteel plate with exposed underwiring!

As far as Mandalorian groups go, my very favorite are the Children of the Watch. Unfortunately, due to my low heat tolerance and lack of trooping experience, I'm not sure how practical it is for me to never remove my helmet. After some thought, I've decided to go for it anyway -- if I pick anything other than the Tribe, I think there will always be a part of me that's a little bummed about it. I'll have to brainstorm some fun things to say when I inevitably remove the helmet in public!

So, I'll have some custom beskar pieces and generic durasteel / scavenged pieces, all with heavy weathering, and a durasteel plate with exposed underwiring. As it turns out, we have an excellent canon reference for this aesthetic!



How about that! I never noticed since my favorite Din variation is season two, but this post-mudhorn pre-beskar design is a perfect reference for my kit! I'll definitely keep it in mind going forward.


Now, I have my upper armor figured out, but my main motivation for doing the last writeup was to help me decide on leg armor. So, what are my thoughts? Let's talk about how I interpret the CotW leg designs.

Here are the VFX models again for reference, as well as Sakane's screenshots:



As far as leg plates go, the tribe primarily mixes and matches between three sets, which I have been calling "variation 1", "variation 2", and "repurposed".

Variation 1 sets, particularly the thighs, are the most common and recognizable. Not only are they used by the Tribe and by Din, but the thighs are also used by the Death Watch and the Nite Owls. They consist of asymmetrical thighs and a shin that wraps completely. Here is a mando with a set of var1 thighs, and a mando with one var1 thigh and mixed var1/var2 shins:



Variation 2 sets are only seen in the Tribe, and seem to match the heavy chestplate. They consist of asymmetrical thighs and a shnee that is much like the var1 shin, with an added knee and boot plate. Here is a mando who uses var2 thighs and a var2 shnee. (Sidenote: I think that is a Nite Owl pauldron!):



Repurposed plates are hard to identify! As mentioned in the previous post, the concept art doesn't seem to fit with what we see from other mando groups. I've tentatively decided to only consider the shoretrooper pauldron and shnee to be the repurposed plates:



A note on custom plates and exceptions to these rules: some mandos in the Tribe (cough, all the named characters, cough) use a few plates that are unique to them. Look at the VFX model of Paz: he uses var2 shnees, helmet, and chest (plus diaphragm plate), but the rest is unique. Notably, his thigh plates do appear to be custom, but are based heavily on the var2 ones. The Armorer, of course, uses a completely different armor set to the others. Din started out matching the Tribe, but as he kept upgrading, he got some plate designs that are specific to him. I was reluctant to use the non-canon shoulders and the helmet / chestplate modifications that I love, but there is precedent enough that I shouldn't be so hard on myself!


Okay! Now that we've looked through all that... What do I want to use for my legs?

Shoretrooper shnee: I always loved this angular design (It's spiky! I love spiky!! ), but dismissed it because it was Imperial in origin. However, considering its popularity in the Tribe... when labeling it as a trophy, I think it works! I will put it on my left shin because I kneel on my right knee.

Durasteel shin: Due to my kama, this plate is my best bet to show exposed underwiring. I'm surprised there aren't many shin options, it seems leather wraps are popular. The Nite Owls have their own design, but I'll stick with the Tribe. I'll go for var1 (no shnees) because I want to be able to kneel.

Thigh set: I am leaning towards a matching set of thighplates used by the covert. This is a departure from the spiky aesthetic of my shoulders, but from a story perspective, it makes sense. I may change this to a custom design based on the legacy MandoCreator plates if I decide to prioritize aesthetic over lore. I'll put the smaller plate on my left side since I kneel on my right knee.

I am leaning towards the var1 set because it's common and more recognizably canon. However, the var2 is more angular and may suit the shoulders / chest better. I like how they wrap around the leg, but I worry this may not be as comfortable as the var1 set. Check out how they look in the episode 3 screenshots -- pretty snazzy!



Tasset plate?: Arco would consider the shoretrooper plate to be a trophy rather than real armor. Arguably, this means it doesn't count towards the four pieces of lower body armor required in the CRLs! I don't actually want more armor pieces because I want to be as comfortable as possible in kit, but this train of thought tickles me. The Nite Owl tasset design looks better in my opinion, but for consistency, I think I'd prefer the Tribe's design. If I go for it, it will be on my left side, as I am left handed and that hip would probably face outward more often.


So, I guess I'm not 100% decided yet, but I like where this is going! Looks like I have some cardboard mockups to make.

[Fenn Beviin]

I like where this is going as well.

Now after 14 pages of thread - do some building!!! 

[Yorwoin]

I second Fenn,

You have a pretty good concept there, so you can start working on big pieces you know you will use. For instance, the chest plate or helmet. You can change things along the way, of course.

[Second Son]

This is solid work, vod.
Arco, I am in awe of your depth of research and will be bookmarking it for a P/I set, even though I'm 98% there with my Classic (Original Recipe) Modern Kit.
Now that I've read this latest addition to your thread I'm planning an Official Variant with P/I torso armor. Gotta check with the Ruus about how much cross-kit part use is allowed, or if I'll just have to make a whole new set (which would be terrible )

[Karson Wren]

In terms of thigh plates, i think var 2 would more suit how sharp and angular the rest of the plates are.


Also, i wouldn't say you have to stay away from nite owl plates. I'm sure the cotw could have gotten some somewhere, between possible conflicts between them, defections or spme other stuff that could pop into my head.

Again, love you're posts.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

I like where this is going as well.

Now after 14 pages of thread - do some building!!! 

Wait... You mean it's NOT normal to make 14 pages of musing without actually building?

I second Fenn,

You have a pretty good concept there, so you can start working on big pieces you know you will use. For instance, the chest plate or helmet. You can change things along the way, of course.

I've still got some ironing out to do on pretty much all my patterns! The shoulders are the most set-in-stone, but I want to make sure they don't collide with the chest plate before moving to sintra. I should probably dive into the flightsuit / flak first to make sure the sintra plates fit with no float.

This is solid work, vod.
Arco, I am in awe of your depth of research and will be bookmarking it for a P/I set, even though I'm 98% there with my Classic (Original Recipe) Modern Kit.
Now that I've read this latest addition to your thread I'm planning an Official Variant with P/I torso armor. Gotta check with the Ruus about how much cross-kit part use is allowed, or if I'll just have to make a whole new set (which would be terrible )

Yessss! Join the PImps. I'd love to se a PI chest plate out of metal!

In terms of thigh plates, i think var 2 would more suit how sharp and angular the rest of the plates are.

Also, i wouldn't say you have to stay away from nite owl plates. I'm sure the cotw could have gotten some somewhere, between possible conflicts between them, defections or spme other stuff that could pop into my head.

Again, love you're posts.

I'm actually starting to lean towards var 2 for the thigh plates, too! I really want the recognizability of the var 1, but the angular ones just plain look nice with my other plates...

Your thoughts on the Nite Owl plates make sense! We already know they have at least some crossover with CotW designs (Axe Woves' plates are var 1, he's almost using the Death Watch uniform). I just wonder if the other tasset design is more recognizably CotW, especially since Din uses it.


My flightsuit and flak vest are a big mental hurdle, I think they're a part of why I keep hovering in the planning stage forever.

So, I borrowed a friend's ancient sewing machine and started learning the ropes... until it made a weird smell that I was NOT a fan of. Seems it may need a tune up? Being completely new to sewing, I wonder if I should go down the rabbithole of fixing it, or if I should just go to the library and use theirs...

Well, my boxcutter doesn't need a tuneup! Seems tonight is time to work on chest and leg templates instead.

Question for those who scratch build PVC gauntlets -- can you make them using a handsaw, a heatgun, and a drill, or do you need more equipment?

[Arkham]

I'm actually starting to lean towards var 2 for the thigh plates, too! I really want the recognizability of the var 1, but the angular ones just plain look nice with my other plates...

...or, you can just design your own thigh plates that work best for you with the rest of your costume and allow you to move as needed.

Just a thought.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

...or, you can just design your own thigh plates that work best for you with the rest of your costume and allow you to move as needed.

Just a thought.

I would like to use as many canon plates as I can -- these shoulders I'm smitten by are already a bit far from PI for my tastes. I'd like my durasteel plates to be standard CotW!

I'm working on the var 2 right thigh pattern. It's trickier than I thought, but it's exciting to turn these blurry screenshots into a real pattern!

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

From small, blurry screenshots...



...To a pattern!







I'm liking the fit, and I'm able to sit comfortably in it. I think the var 2 plates will work. I just wish they were recognizable (and considering the quality of the references I was able to get, I'm pretty sure they won't be ), but hey, I'll know where they came from and I suppose that's what's important!

Onto the left thigh plate...

[Karson Wren]

I'm pretty sure paz has identical thigh plares, so that'd be good for reference.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Paz's is a very similar variant! If you look closely, Paz's plates wrap around much more fully than the olive mando's -- looks like they could wrap the entire thigh. The olive mando does something similar with one of his, but the beige mando does not. It's interesting to see how this one design can be altered for different effects (and makes me feel better about the customizations I'm adding to my chest / helmet! ).

You bring up a good point, though -- Paz is worth looking at, even if I only do the light variant! Maybe I should do a screenshot watch of a recent episode...

[Second Son]

Maybe I should do a screenshot watch of a recent episode...

and post it for all vode to reap the benefits, right?

Your plate pattern has a good solid feel to it, lets see it in Sintra!

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

and post it for all vode to reap the benefits, right?

Hey, ask for a charcuterie of blurry man legs, and you shall receive.


Guess who figured out how to ENHANCE SCREENSHOTS?




Oh yes. My permanently squinted eyes are taking a breather.

Note that the details in the enhanced images are clearer, but the colors are no longer accurate. Here's the full album (BoBF episode 5 spoilers for those who haven't watched yet!). These aren't comprehensive since I was focusing on his lower body armor, there were some good upper body shots in the episode too if someone was interested in those. I've already got a good chest base from analyzing this album I found on Google.

Also, TIL Paz has elbow plates!

So, from what I can gather -- Paz has plain sheets of metal that wrap fully around his legs. Placed on top of that are variants of the plates I'm using! How's that for trauma plating? Here are my observations of the right thigh compared to my template and the olive mando:

The side panels are not only curved; there is a bend down the middle. Upon closer inspection, this matches the olive mando's plate.



The top panel is an additional trauma plate. Upon closer inspection, this matches the olive mando's plate.



The right panel juts outward at a sharper angle than I thought. When comparing to the olive mando's plate, it seems this is an extra panel added to Paz's design.



Thank you to Karson for the suggestion! I was going to write Paz off as a reference since his plate was different, but this turned out to be a great resource to compare. I'll make those changes to my template and get to work on the left leg.

[Karson Wren]

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Got the left template down! The top row of screenshots are the olive mando (who I'm basing mine off of) and the rest are Paz, whose left thigh seems accurate to the olive mando.









I'm concerned about floating on both the thigh plates. Looking at the screenshots, it looks like these plates are designed to float near the knee, except for Paz who has a plate underneath. The top panel is flat in the references, and I'm inclined to keep it screen accurate... but I do want it to look fitted to me, and I'm worried keeping it accurate may look sloppy in practice. I may have to curve the flat panel to fit me better. I'll do further refining during my actual build when I have a flight suit, but this is a good template for the concept.


Oh boy, this is where the fun begins. The shin armor wraps fully around, so simple paper drafting won't work. Time to make a duct tape dummy of my leg!

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Well, I'm officially more concerned about my shins than my chestplate! I'm second guessing my thoughts to make this out of sintra, I'm not sure I'll be able to make it seamless and shape it as smoothly as I'd like to.



My clan recommended checking out Free Form Air to hide the seams, and I remember Apoxie Sculpt being mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm hoping this plus lots of sanding will work out alright.

Do you guys have any thoughts or know of any similar sintra builds?

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Still working on the shin template. Definitely the most frustrating piece so far. I may just make a template of the base and worry about the differentiating details during the actual build, but I know it'll make the build smoother if I can figure them out ahead of time, so I'll take a breather and start again tomorrow.

By the way, happy birthday to this thread! My concept sure has evolved a lot. I remember feeling dead set on my first draft, but I'm really happy with the changes. The design is more storied now -- it's a great base for the story I want to tell with brigades in the future.





Here's something scary: I officially have a deadline! There are troops I want to go to on April 22 and May the 4th. Let's get something wearable by then and approvable soon after!

[Karson Wren]

And the race is on! 

[Cattriss Wren]

Good for you Arco doing a  deadline!! They can be hard. And happy birthday to your kit!! Your new concept is awesome!

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

Thanks for the encouragement, guys!


I've been thrifting for mando boots since last June, and this whole time I barely found a crumb. Well, today I found a feast!



TWO nice, wide, LACELESS options that fit! I've been toying with the idea of having a few extra plates to switch out depending on my mood, and those tall boots would be nice with Bo-Katan style shins.

Speaking of shins.... AAAaaah! It's been a good three days of work on the shoretrooper shin, and I'm still not happy with it. This is the fifth cardboard iteration and I still have some issues to iron out, but it's getting close. I cut down an old iteration to act as my CotW thigh and tried them on:



One of the hardest things about this design has been coming to terms with the fact I won't be able to give it screen accurate proportions AND proportions that fit well to my form. I know fit comes first, but it still stings to look at this and see how different it is from the references.

Phew. Back to work on it tomorrow!

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

OK. I'm still not perfectly happy with these, but I'm starting to go a little nuts with how much I've been stressing over them. Since this iteration fits and looks decent, here's the shin templates I'm going with:





Shoretrooper shnee:







CotW shin:







As mentioned before, in order to make these fit comfortably, I had to adjust the proportions of the screen accurate details... which really bums me out! But I figure I should go ahead with these so I have something to troop with. If I'm still not happy, I can remake them. I just need to stop perfectionism-procrastinating or I'll never get approvable.

So, here's the references I used! The CotW shnee is very hard to see. Paz's seems to match the basic shnee with an extra boot plate, so I've been using that as a reference too.



As far as the shoretrooper shnee goes, I've been looking at this album from The Dented Helmet user Scott Kaufmann. I've also been taking screenshots, but the album is honestly easier to see. My favorite of my screenshots is this moment where Din kneeled on his and accidentally broke it.



Anyway... I'm almost done with the cardboard templates, then I'll finally start the build! I'm going to dial in my current chest plate iteration and then I'll have a full set of cardboard armor.

Except the backplate. The backplate doesn't count. That CRL doesn't exist until the app team yells at me.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

I don't like 3D printing anymore! Three hours into a five minute tutorial, I identified and fixed an issue with the PTFE tubing, but now the nozzle won't screw in the whole way. Not sure if it's cross threaded and needs a new heat block (which apparently I can only replace the entire hotend on my model...?) or what. I'll try cold pulling to clean the threads and hope for the best.

In better news, I have a new chest plate variation!

Here is the original:



Here I made an effort to flatten it:



Which version looks best? (Ignore the shoulder float -- it was surprisingly difficult to keep them from falling off!)

[Celtkhan]

Do a full disassemble on the hot end; you might have some plastic between your heat brake and heater block. Also, it might be easier to screw in the nozzle if you heat up the hot end a *little* before screwing it in, since hot metal expands. Just don’t go high enough to burn yourself.

[Arco'thyel Wyshla]

That's the idea! I ordered a metal brush that will hopefully help with cleaning the heat block. I learned a lot when replacing the PTFE tube, so I'm sure disassembling the hotend will be a good experience. And yes, I screwed in the nozzle while it was hot, and I have the blisters to prove it!

I also ordered sewing machine oil! Here's hoping that's all the machine needed and it's not a motor issue. I'm getting to work on patterning the spats and started seam ripping pockets from the scrubs.

With any luck, all my machines will be up and running for my build sprint to the convention in April...